If FTP doesn't come up with a better reward system with the additional money earned by cutting affiliates it would be a total joke and really bad for the industry IMO. Maybe one of the FTP reps sees this tread and will post something.

yeah but I miss the freeroll every month (it's also a waste of my time due to field size and prizes) and don't rake enough for a rakerace

if I get a penny more from FTP than before I will be happier
HOWEVER
I AM TOTALLY PISSED ABOUT THE SUB-AFFILIATE CHANGE

I referred one guy to FTP through my RB provider and I've been getting up to $100 a month (on a good month) from him
I wish I had more people I could refer, but now it's no-longer possible

so scratch that, I want at least 3% out of the total 5% being cut put into the VIP program

I think my affiliate (subaffiliate+superaffiliate) deserves more than 3%.

Also, not comfortable about weird effects due to grandfathering.

Meh, I just hope FTP implements a rewards system similar to Stars. I'm ready to move... this is coming from someone who is WAY ahead of pace for SNE

Why have the affiliates never been so keen to clean up unjust practices in the past with FTP? How about all you affiliates getting together and petitioning FTP for the following:

• Players should be duty bound to know which affiliate they are linked to.
• Regardless of how/why players first joined FTP there should always be a point where the player can demand to be switched to rakeback.
• No more secrecy between FTP and affiliates with players being left in the dark.

I'll sign this petition OP

Not just 8, such affiliates keep between 20 and 35% to themselves if they are on revenue share without offering rakeback

is it really the affiliates that bring the majority of new players and not the tv shows and commercials? maybe ftp uses the money directly for more tv stuff or other kind of commercial (despite from their new reward program ) to attract new players.. i mean someone who signs up at ftp through an affiliate didnt go to that affiliate site by accident but by searching in the inet after watching a tv show for example; so he knows already that he is going to play at ftp and just checks the rb offers from different affiliates. the new players interest for online poker got aroused by tv shows/commercials and not by colorful banners. correct me if im wrong.

The change affects your bankroll directly if you signed up through an affiliate who offers races and others promos. With 3% there is no room at all for giving as much money and rewards to loyal players like affiliates are able to provide now.

If you refer friends many of the big rb providers pay you up to 4,25% + 1% of your friends net rake for a lifetime (Tier 1 and 2 friends). Compare that to the ~100$ FT or a big poker "school" pays.

The affiliate business is not as easy and profitable as you might think, with that cut down Full Tilt will make a huge mistake, since they will lose potential new customers.

How about...no more rakeback OR rake % to affiliates and reducing the rake by 35% accross the board...just a crazy thought... kickbacks bring in new players just as well...

Lot of angry affiliates or friends of them (27%+X% rakeback deals) in this thread.

Great stance you guys are taking, resort to calling everyone idiots if they don't agree with you.



Have to say, Pokerstars has the right idea with offering their own rakeback system. FTP should copy PS system but offer a flat percentage that everyone gets and more to encourage the regs.

You see "tied to contract" thrown around a lot, but if that is the case, then FTP should close all accounts opened through affiliates and let people open up new accounts.

You're wrong, how do you think FTP got to the position where they can afford TV shows and commercials? The quality player, RB player, who deposits and re-deposits comes through affiliates, not people who see a TV commercials for ftp.NET. There's many good reasons to advertise on TV, however relying soley on that in an online based industry would be a big mistake.

I totally understand the frustration about having accidentally signed up though a non-RB affiliate and getting screwed on RB, that's something FTP should have rectified years ago, but to blame other RB affiliates or players with RB is foolish. Most RB providers provide real value for their players in the form all types of monthly promotions and kickbacks above and beyond their rakeback. FTP is yanking that away with this move.

One other thing I'd like to point out....affiliates get paid by PokerStars too, yes PS has an affiliate program, both CPA and MGR, so thinking PS is doing something radically different is just wrong.

Because the reason why rakeback works, and always has been so popular is it's cash payment, it's like winning a pot every week or every month, it's something the player can scoop in, it's tangible and it's based on overall rake and play, the more you play and rake the more rakeback you get, the bigger your "pot" is. Players notice it, they feel special, they plan for it, they work for it. Online Poker is not like shopping at a clothing store, just reducing the rake (having a sale) does not generate excitement and encourage more action.

Any affiliate coming into this thread and calling people names is ignorant.

Ultimately every meaningful thing of value that has gone to players was pushed by affiliates. Certainly Stars would have never done their VIP without rakeback affiliates gathering up their players in droves.

The simple fact is that the model that me and a handful of other bigger affiliates created back in the day has created more value to players. We have then gone on to create more value to what we believe are the most valuable players in poker (the people who rake a lot typically start and populate the games creating more value for the sites).

Many of us have created systems that allow for more open communication between the rooms and poker players and often resolutions happen because rooms respect the power of our groups.

Let me give you two examples of risks I have taken in an attempt to show value to poker players. A few years ago there was a skin that I was promoting heavily, it was extremely popular, at the time we paid people daily (this isn't really needed any longer as most sites are automated now) when the skin went down I had a choice pay everyone what they expected or essentially be out of business. The amount was sizable enough that I had to mortgage my house to pay people amounts that I was not guaranteed would ever be paid to me. Customers barely noticed a blip and ultimately I was paid 6-9 months later. Trust me, that was a tough conversation to have with my wife.

For almost 4 years I have spearheaded a project that (hopefully) will be a competitor to both training sites and apps like PT3 and HEM. We are in beta at the moment. While I am not "all in" the cost to me is mid six figures at this point. No one should cry for me as I make revenues with other things but without affiliates pushing the boundaries of what is possible in terms of player value, player training and player content it wouldn't happen.

Lastly the amount that have been paid in rakeback, in my belief, is a big part of what we know as the "poker boom". Players going broke is common rakeback obviously provides a cushion. No site would have ever been tempted to create any VIP or stores without that competition. That amount of value going into the poker economy every day, week or month really adds up.

Am I doing well or have a great life? Absolutely I do! But I took risks along the way to get there. I don't have a private jet and nor do really any affiliates. What we do have is a staff of people that write code and content, we provide jobs for people as well as the value to players. We aren't typically one web page with a few links, I think that is a myth that needs to be contradicted.

FTP changing the rules is within their rights as a business and personally I don't have a problem with it at all. As a business owner I will adjust, times like these often provide great opportunity. So what often seems dire ends up being profitable. Who knows. At the very least I wanted to put a better spin on why affiliates provide value to players and put a stop to all the name calling from ignorant affiliates that likely don't make much money anyway (that only applies to you if you think it does, don't hate the player affiliates).

The crying for help from affiliates is kind of silly. I'm actually very satisfied with my affiliate, but not to the point that I'm going to go out of my way to make sure their bottom line stays huge. For 6k monthly MGR I once got $200 from them. Given that they make 8% on me, that means they still profited about $300 off me that month for doing.. well nothing. And the other 30 or so months that I've raked 4k+, which places me out of the rake races, I've gotten... nothing and they've profited nearly $10,000 from me alone? Sick life. Sorry, it won't be quite so sick in the future.

And I think this is obviously a precursor to FTP introducing a better VIP program for their players. Less money for the affiliates, more for me?

This is a good post. Anyone who thinks all an affiliate does is make a one page site with a few links should read this.
Of course there are some bad affiliates who got into being an affiliate because they thought they could make a fast buck, but there are many hard working affiliates like the person quoted above seems to be.

Fwiw I think as long as FT is intending to put this money into a big improvement to the vip system then the vast majority of players will be happy. I know I will

Oh come on now. I just read the linked link. The change isn't even retroactive.

Now I definitely don't feel bad for them. They can make an excuse to drop the freerolls and rakeraces while still maintaining the same levels of rake for the vast majority of their clientele. Poor guys.