Affiliates/Rakeback forum bans responses to offer requests except from approved advertisers

[Self Made]

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

...the only posters that will be allowed to reply to offer requests will be approved advertisers.

2+2s advertising packages start at about $[X]/month. A 2+2 advertising rep. says "...we may reevaluate this in the future. However, we'd be interested in feedback from affiliates of all sizes what they feel they would value the ability to PM offers at."

The major rakeback sites pretty much offer the same deals on the same sites/networks. The A/R forum has been a very valuable additional resource. For example there are threads there about sites that the major rakeback sites don't offer; and there are further sites that don't even have threads in A/R but you could get offers for by posting in the "Not room/network specific" thread. Additionally there were under-the-table deals that, regardless of 2+2's position on them,

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Many networks and/or sites have asked that offers that break their network rules not be allowed on 2+2, a request we typically honour.

, 2+2ers clearly valued because they kept requesting them.

Many small affiliates add value but aren't going to be paying [$X] a year primarily to be able to respond to offer requests. As an example of the added value that is lost, there are definitely sites/networks out there that 99+% of you haven't heard of but you would be making more money at if you played on. That lost profitable information is one of the results of restraint of trade, as opposed to open competition. The economic ideal is that everyone is able to advertise (and see ads) at prices that reflect the value of the advertising. Therefore the loss of small affiliates is a loss to everyone, including 2+2s bottom line. So I think "what they feel they would value the ability to PM offers at" is where the discussion should be.

[Bobo Fett]

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to discuss this in ATF, so I'll probably slide it over to A/R.

In the end, I'm not sure what you're asking here, if anything.

[MonkeyPox]

He is complaining that he cant afford to advertise in the rakeback forum because he is a small affiliate and he thinks its not fair.

[Self Made]

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

In the end, I'm not sure what you're asking here, if anything.

It's in the last sentence:

Originally Posted by Self Made

So I think "what they feel they would value the ability to PM offers at" is where the discussion should be.

Translation: can 2+2 and affiliates agree on a price for PMing that would be allow small affiliates to resume responding to requests for offers in the A/R forum?

[Bobo Fett]

Ah, I see. That idea was discussed, but it was decided not to go that route.

That's not to say there couldn't ever be further changes, so you're certainly welcome to make suggestions.

[snipsanator]

Originally Posted by Self Made

Therefore the loss of small affiliates is a loss to everyone, including 2+2s bottom line.

How would 2+2 suffer any loss at all to its bottom line with this change?

The only possible change to 2+2 will be an increase in advertising revenue, surely?

[iluvleeds]

I am surprised there has not been more love for the OP, although it's still early days yet.

I agree with the points he has made.

The big 'well known' affiliates pretty much have the whole 'rakeback' market sewn up.

Sure, they don't get ALL of the business but they still take a majority of the traffic between them.

I am the first to admit that they have become large as a result of a number of factors, one of which is good customer service to go with the good offers.

However, these sites are not offering the VERY BEST deals on all sites for all players.

Often, it's the smaller affiliates that manage to get these deals.

Just because an affiliate does not have the financial backup to invest $x a month for high exposure ad banners and sponsored threads here does not mean he is any less reliable or trustworthy than the so called 'big affiliates'.

2+2 should never under-estimate the influence it has on the online poker community.

Many players have been able to continue playing online and contribute to the income of the sites as a result of deals they received from sources on 2+2.

This opportunity for players to be able to find the very best deals out there by inviting PM's from ALL OTHER 2+2 members has been invaluable for players and affiliates alike.

I completely take on board the subject of 'illegal deals'.

I sincerely hope that 2+2 has not considered the notion that this move will in any way affect the offering of these deals.

I want to make it absolutely clear that I oppose the 'under the table offers' and the effect they have.

However, please do not fall into the trap of thinking that this step of charging high fees for approved advertising rights will change it in any way.

I suspect that a number of your approved advertisers will be such that they can afford the cost as a result of the fact that they are offering these illegal deals anyway.

There are affiliates that are quite open about the fact that they will use their website to initially attract the potential customer but it's the illegal deal that actually influences a player to sign up. But that is slightly off topic..........

It seems to me that this decision has been made from a purely business aspect to generate more income and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact it should be applauded.

However I feel it may have the effect of making the whole A/R community a little 'elitist' by splitting the contributors into the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

Let the debate continue....

[shakermaker3]

Originally Posted by iluvleeds

Many players have been able to continue playing online and contribute to the income of the sites as a result of deals they received from sources on 2+2.

I have to agree with this sentence, we all know the game is harder and harder each year and for most players the deal they achieved to find is the only thing that keep them break even or make them some profit from their hard grinding days.

Also I really think that if 2+2 could have a fixed price for all affiliates just to get a turquoise name it would be good for everyone. And i'm not talking of banners add here. Otherwise we might see a Cartel of affiliates on 2+2 if they are not in good numbers. We would all see more then one affiliate starting to end their post by "US"

[Makemegood]

As a player I think this is sad news because lets face it, some of the big affiliates dont offer a competing product on many sites and they dont really care to. They just wanna win by default on all the "This sites rb is capped at X%", or "this site doesnt allow rb (and they lobby to keep it this way on some sites). If theres no % competition everyone choose the big safe affiliate and the players get &#¤&#.

[kdoxx]

Originally Posted by iluvleeds

I am surprised there has not been more love for the OP, although it's still early days yet.

I agree with the points he has made.

The big 'well known' affiliates pretty much have the whole 'rakeback' market sewn up.

Sure, they don't get ALL of the business but they still take a majority of the traffic between them.

I am the first to admit that they have become large as a result of a number of factors, one of which is good customer service to go with the good offers.

However, these sites are not offering the VERY BEST deals on all sites for all players.

Often, it's the smaller affiliates that manage to get these deals.

Just because an affiliate does not have the financial backup to invest $x a month for high exposure ad banners and sponsored threads here does not mean he is any less reliable or trustworthy than the so called 'big affiliates'.

2+2 should never under-estimate the influence it has on the online poker community.

Many players have been able to continue playing online and contribute to the income of the sites as a result of deals they received from sources on 2+2.

This opportunity for players to be able to find the very best deals out there by inviting PM's from ALL OTHER 2+2 members has been invaluable for players and affiliates alike.

I completely take on board the subject of 'illegal deals'.

I sincerely hope that 2+2 has not considered the notion that this move will in any way affect the offering of these deals.

I want to make it absolutely clear that I oppose the 'under the table offers' and the effect they have.

However, please do not fall into the trap of thinking that this step of charging high fees for approved advertising rights will change it in any way.

I suspect that a number of your approved advertisers will be such that they can afford the cost as a result of the fact that they are offering these illegal deals anyway.

There are affiliates that are quite open about the fact that they will use their website to initially attract the potential customer but it's the illegal deal that actually influences a player to sign up. But that is slightly off topic..........

It seems to me that this decision has been made from a purely business aspect to generate more income and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact it should be applauded.

However I feel it may have the effect of making the whole A/R community a little 'elitist' by splitting the contributors into the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

Let the debate continue....

+1 on this... im also a small affiliate... and Honestly.. i would never could pay that price it costs..
But a smaller priceso im allowed to PM users would be nice..
In my eays only the Big affiliates get bigger and the small affiliates have NO CHANCES

Well thats just IMO

[R*R]

So at this point in time who are the approved affiliates?

[iluvleeds]

Originally Posted by MonkeyPox

He is complaining that he cant afford to advertise in the rakeback forum because he is a small affiliate and he thinks its not fair.

What an incredibly insular and mindless response.

[cash4fun]

Im also a "small" affiliate, no way that i can pay the amount 2+2 sent me in an offer.

But in the end, its all up to 2+2 , afterall it is their site, and their " customers" i/we are offering deals.

Really hope that they can come up with another advertising plan for us small affiliates, i need a gross rake as big as 30k$ a month at a minimum to be able to advertise.

Anyways, im sure 2+2 will find a good solution for us all.

My 5 cents

[iluvleeds]

Originally Posted by cash4fun

i need a gross rake as big as 30k$ a month at a minimum to be able to advertise.

....which will just about cover the cost of your advertising and leave you with zero income for yourself.

I understand the whole 'speculate to accumulate' mantra but these costs are completely restrictive and I genuinely believe this is a backward step in terms of service to anyone using the A/R forum to find a deal that maximises their return.

[R*R]

Originally Posted by R*R

So at this point in time who are the approved affiliates?

So Bobo are you able to answer this?