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Old 03-13-2017, 04:28 AM   #1
reddev
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Should computer performance socres go down with time?

My computer is slow as sh@t constantly freezing etc especially when using IE so I decided to check my computer scores as I was thinking of upgrading my RAM (6GB running windows 7 64mb) to see if that would speed it up but to my amazement my scores were all really high?



Processor 7.1
RAM 7.1
Graphics 6.8
Gaming Graphics 6.8
Hard disk 5.9

With the best mark possible being 7.9.

I noticed my last check was three years ago so ran it again expecting my scores to plummet but once the test had finished my scores were exactly the same?

I literally only play poker, run HM now and again and surf the internet with f.lux, tilt breaker and kpeskery always running In the background. Do you think that something went wrong wen scoring my system the second time round or could it be that there is something more sinister happening in the background crippling my machine? I have ran plenty of virus checks over the last year form various companies to try and speed up my machine but they never found anything.

Thanks
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:40 AM   #2
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

The Windows Experience Index isn't really much of a guide to anything. And virus checks won't speed up your machine (although they help to rule out malware as a possible cause of slowdowns).

When you say "freezing" what do you mean? Do you mean the whole computer locking up and become unresponsive? Or just IE? Or what?

Please also confirm that Kaspersky is the only antivirus product you have installed.

1. Download a copy of Speccy (freeware, by Piriform) and when it runs please post for us a copy of the Summary page, telling us more about your system - and include the temperatures. Keep it open and next time your machine locks up tell us what the temperatures say then, too: is there any difference?

2. Also download a copy of Ccleaner (also freeware, by Piriform) and use it to clean up your temp files etc. Some instructions here.

3. Also download a copy of Malwarebytes Antimalware (the free version not the premium one, although I think they're both in the same installer). Install it, update the definitions, and run a scan. You can (and should) have this product installed at the same time as your antivirus product.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:10 AM   #3
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

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Originally Posted by thunderbolts View Post
The Windows Experience Index isn't really much of a guide to anything. And virus checks won't speed up your machine (although they help to rule out malware as a possible cause of slowdowns).

When you say "freezing" what do you mean? Do you mean the whole computer locking up and become unresponsive? Or just IE? Or what?

Please also confirm that Kaspersky is the only antivirus product you have installed.

1. Download a copy of Speccy (freeware, by Piriform) and when it runs please post for us a copy of the Summary page, telling us more about your system - and include the temperatures. Keep it open and next time your machine locks up tell us what the temperatures say then, too: is there any difference?

2. Also download a copy of Ccleaner (also freeware, by Piriform) and use it to clean up your temp files etc. Some instructions here.

3. Also download a copy of Malwarebytes Antimalware (the free version not the premium one, although I think they're both in the same installer). Install it, update the definitions, and run a scan. You can (and should) have this product installed at the same time as your antivirus product.
Just IE explorer locks up the majority of the time as I can open Chrome and that's fine but sometimes my whole computer locks up. Even when typing In the IE address bar it can tall and take a second or two for t echaracters to appear.

no other aanti viruses, I ad two or three ones but deleted them when I paid for Kasperky (runs out in 6 days so will be back to free ones)

I will check those links once I have finished playing poker thank you.

I think I may need a SSD as I used Novabench after that post and my hard disk score was a pathetic 22 write speed 73MB

my 6 GB RAM scored 137 3835mb/s

CPU scored 335

total score 663
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:34 AM   #4
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

For the avoidance of doubt do not install more than one AV product at a time (the free version of MBAM that I mentioned doesn't count towards this and can be installed at the same time as Kaspersky or whatever free product you replace it with). Come back with more information once you've finished your poker.

Also please run Windows Update and make sure your machine is completely up to date.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:03 PM   #5
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Windows Experience Index was a fairly good idea that didn't really seem to get broad traction on the third party software side. If I recall correctly, the scores were capped at a max value that was increased over time as new hardware was evaluated and given baseline scores.
Take a look at task manager while running your typical tasks. You most likely either running out of free RAM and having to swap to the pagefile on your hard drive, or background scanning is tying up your disk. If you have plenty of free RAM, launch resource monitor (windows+R perfmon.exe /res) and check the Disk tab to see what is driving disk activity (Win8 and up have disk activity monitoring built in to TaskMgr).
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:03 AM   #6
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

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Originally Posted by headtrauma View Post
Windows Experience Index was a fairly good idea that didn't really seem to get broad traction on the third party software side. If I recall correctly, the scores were capped at a max value that was increased over time as new hardware was evaluated and given baseline scores.
Take a look at task manager while running your typical tasks. You most likely either running out of free RAM and having to swap to the pagefile on your hard drive, or background scanning is tying up your disk. If you have plenty of free RAM, launch resource monitor (windows+R perfmon.exe /res) and check the Disk tab to see what is driving disk activity (Win8 and up have disk activity monitoring built in to TaskMgr).
Hi, with everything I normally use all running at once open (HM2, a couple IE tabs, Pokerstars, Microgmaing and this time I had a Malware bytes scan running) I had RAM usage around 4300 MB max 4600MB with 1700 MB In standby but 0-10MB fluctuating of FREE MB? Is that the problem?

All the readings were:

Hardware Reserved 67 MB
In Use 4273 MB
Modified 62MB
Standby 1743 MB
Free 0MB (sometimes 1-4MB)

In the Disk TAB I am not quite sure what I am looking at But If I do something like load a few webpages or something the green graph (Disk 0 (D:C) Queue length 10) can spike with the green line constantly hitting the ceiling, the other graph (Disk 10MB/SEC) also spikes and hits the top of the graph constantly as well (During these times mep.exe was either top of the list or near the top of the list in Activity.

Sorry if that is hard to understand/read as Computers really aren't my thing.

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:12 AM   #7
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

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Originally Posted by thunderbolts View Post
The Windows Experience Index isn't really much of a guide to anything. And virus checks won't speed up your machine (although they help to rule out malware as a possible cause of slowdowns).

When you say "freezing" what do you mean? Do you mean the whole computer locking up and become unresponsive? Or just IE? Or what?

Please also confirm that Kaspersky is the only antivirus product you have installed.

1. Download a copy of Speccy (freeware, by Piriform) and when it runs please post for us a copy of the Summary page, telling us more about your system - and include the temperatures. Keep it open and next time your machine locks up tell us what the temperatures say then, too: is there any difference?

2. Also download a copy of Ccleaner (also freeware, by Piriform) and use it to clean up your temp files etc. Some instructions here.

3. Also download a copy of Malwarebytes Antimalware (the free version not the premium one, although I think they're both in the same installer). Install it, update the definitions, and run a scan. You can (and should) have this product installed at the same time as your antivirus product.
I am just getting round to trying these. I have just downloaded MB and the scan had 55 threats with 7 Malware (Trojan.DNS changer.ACMB). Once I clean this lot up can I just run MB and get rid of kasperky (paid subscription ends in 4 days) because that is obviously crap? Or should I pay for another AV to go with MB (the full paid version of MB maybe?) I only search the same few sites and play poker so I wouldn't of thought I am in much Danger of a threat, My problem is just that my computer is really slow.

Also my windows updates are all up to date, I install these as soon as I see they are available because I am always hoping they can speed up my machine.

Cheers
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Old 03-14-2017, 12:57 PM   #8
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

The free version of MB doesn't include antivirus. I do like to keep it installed as a backup to Windows Defender (sub antivirus of your choice here) for occasional full scans and at least monthly runs of their immunization tool (blocks known malware and exploits from installing in the first place). MB provides a great tool, so if you're going for paid AV again, you should consider them.

Seeing the disk graph green to the top shows that your disk is 100% busy, which can be perceived as slow downs and lack of responsiveness. Since you were running an MB scan at the time, though, this is to be expected (full scan needs to read every file on the drive, you should be maxing out disk read here unless your CPU can't keep up).

Cleaning up the Trojans should hopefully help a bit. If you can inexpensively add RAM, it might be helpful. Adding an SSD makes boot and load times substantially faster, but likely wouldn't make a huge impact once your standard programs are already up and running, unless your swapping to virtual memory, where adding more RAM would have a bigger impact.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:27 PM   #9
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Yeah, you need to install a proper antivirus product alongside MBAM. You don't need to pay for one if you don't want to: excellent free choices include Avira, AVG and BitDefender. Avira is probably the "techiest" of those; AVG is very consumer friendly and BitDefender is very highly regarded and super easy to install and then not worry about. Choose one of the three, and make sure that you uninstall Kaspersky properly when installing the new one (once you've downloaded the installer for your new AV of choice then check whether Kaspersky offers on its website an uninstaller tool - otherwise with a manufacturer like that uninstalling from Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel should be okay). In Windows 7 in particular I would not recommend Windows Defender.

Sounds like you have lots of malware issues. Presumably you have now got MBAM to fix all the detections? As headtrauma says, cleaning things up should help. Reboot once you've done so. Run another scan with MBAM. Fix anything else it finds. Run a full scan once you've installed your new AV product too.

And then follow the steps I linked you to in order to clean the machine more with Ccleaner.

Once you've done all of that, if you're still having trouble then post new results from Performance Monitor (measured when you're not running a scan with MBAM or an AV product - as headtrauma says that 100% maxing out of resources will be a result of the scan). Also post the information from Speccy that I suggested. Temperatures could still be part of the problem here but we need to get the machine clean first.

We can also then help you clean some stuff up at startup etc. Since mep.exe appears to be My Epsom Portal I'm pretty sure you don't need that running if it turns out it really is causing problems.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:49 AM   #10
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Ok, First of all thanks for all the help as I doubt I could do this on my own.

1) I have used speccy and the results were:

Operating System
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33GHz 47 °C
Yorkfield 45nm Technology
RAM
6.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 531MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
Dell Inc. 0G254H (CPU)
Graphics
DELL S2309W (1920x1080@60Hz)
ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (Dell) 69 °C
Storage
596GB Western Digital WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B2 (SATA) 32 °C
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GH30N
Audio
High Definition Audio Device

2) I have done a second MB scan and there were 0 problems found.

3) I have downloaded CC and followed the instructions to clean up my computer.

4) I have deleted Kasperky and downloaded Bitdefender which after a scan found 0 infected files.

One thing I did notice was that when I was using IE again, it froze with the error message "not responding due to long running script".

I guess I will see how my computer performs from now on although my initial impressions are that it seems a lot snappier (especially IE) since doing the CC clean up.

Lastly is the situation of have 1.5GB/3GB of RAM on standby at any one time but having 0 MB memory free not a big deal? it sounds disastrous?

Cheers
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:44 PM   #11
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by headtrauma View Post
The free version of MB doesn't include antivirus. I do like to keep it installed as a backup to Windows Defender (sub antivirus of your choice here) for occasional full scans and at least monthly runs of their immunization tool (blocks known malware and exploits from installing in the first place). MB provides a great tool, so if you're going for paid AV again, you should consider them.

Seeing the disk graph green to the top shows that your disk is 100% busy, which can be perceived as slow downs and lack of responsiveness. Since you were running an MB scan at the time, though, this is to be expected (full scan needs to read every file on the drive, you should be maxing out disk read here unless your CPU can't keep up).

Cleaning up the Trojans should hopefully help a bit. If you can inexpensively add RAM, it might be helpful. Adding an SSD makes boot and load times substantially faster, but likely wouldn't make a huge impact once your standard programs are already up and running, unless your swapping to virtual memory, where adding more RAM would have a bigger impact.
Why does OP not need an SSD?

HM2 is a PostgreSQL database, which is IO bound. SSDs have massively better IO operation compared to an HDD.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:27 PM   #12
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

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Why does OP not need an SSD?

HM2 is a PostgreSQL database, which is IO bound. SSDs have massively better IO operation compared to an HDD.
I nearly bought a SSD basically just for HM2 as it takes forever to open as it has to load loads of hands, The idea of transferring my HD to a new SSD and fitting it puts me off though so I ended up just putting up with it.

On brighter note though after another day of poker and a bit of internet browsing now and again my browser is quicker and hasn't froze/script stopped yet.

I also had to delete bit defender in favour of AVG as Holdem manger wouldn't open with it installed.

More RAM wouldn't make HM load hands/open up quicker would it? only SSD's speed up this process correct? RAM would be a lot easier for me to install.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:54 PM   #13
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

SQL loves RAM. Being able to load and keep more tables in RAM is hugely advantageous. As it is, Reddev's computer seems to be paging to the HDD. Paging to SSD is faster, but still an order of magnitude slower than having enough RAM that you don't have to page to disk.
It's a question of bang for your buck.
I love SSDs, but I would want to limit how much I spent on a PC running a proc that launched in 2008. He might have to either invest a fair bit of time learning how to migrate his boot drive to SSD or hire the job out, leading to additional cost for the SSD choice. If it is in the budget, I'd suggest a new PC over investing >$100 into the current rig.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:58 PM   #14
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Fitting an SSD is very simple: essentially a matter of getting the drive into the bay (it will come with a bracket in case one is needed) and connecting the correct SATA lead.

If you take some photos of the inside of the box we can give you some better guidance (i.e. do you have a suitable spare bay, are there any unused leads already there, etc).

Transferring your OS is also simple. If you buy a Samsung 850 EVO, for example, you'll get software with it including Samsung Magician. They recommend that a clean install is better when going from HDD to SSD but if you don't want to do that it will help you clone the drive across anyway. Worked fine for me.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:05 AM   #15
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

For those of us that are computer hobbyists, adding an SSD and migrating is usually pretty trivial. It doesn't always go smoothly. When I used the Intel clone tool to attempt to migrate my work PC to an Intel SSD, it left the system non bootable and I had to boot to WinRE and recover. After two attempts with the migration tool, I nuked and paved the box and installed a fresh Windows image. While this is something I know how to do, it still burned $100 of my time.

Putting >$100/GBP equivalent into a pre Core i PC, outside of limited business use scenarios, is like putting a new transmission in a 150K mile Ford Focus. It will improve the acute issue but it's not, in my opinion, the best use of time or funds.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:42 AM   #16
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by headtrauma View Post
For those of us that are computer hobbyists, adding an SSD and migrating is usually pretty trivial. It doesn't always go smoothly. When I used the Intel clone tool to attempt to migrate my work PC to an Intel SSD, it left the system non bootable and I had to boot to WinRE and recover. After two attempts with the migration tool, I nuked and paved the box and installed a fresh Windows image. While this is something I know how to do, it still burned $100 of my time.

Putting >$100/GBP equivalent into a pre Core i PC, outside of limited business use scenarios, is like putting a new transmission in a 150K mile Ford Focus. It will improve the acute issue but it's not, in my opinion, the best use of time or funds.
I see where you're coming from as I was thinking the same thing the other day and was looking for a new computer tower instead but even this one that is a refurb cost £320 which made me think I should just spend £100-£150 on either RAM or a SSD.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-OptiPl...l+ssd+computer

Oh and I already have an Akasa bracket as I nearly bought a SSD about about a year or two ago. I was going to do the migration thing after reading about the software but bottled in the end it and just put up with the HD in the end. I was using HM1 at the time and that opens really quick but poker stars banned that and I had to buy HM2. For some reason HM2 has to load hands every times it opens up which HM1 did not and this takes longer and longer with each passing day, it takes forever and it's infuriating.

Last edited by reddev; 03-17-2017 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:26 AM   #17
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

I have also somehow managed to use up 280Gb of hard drive space even though I have nothing on my machine which means I would have to buy a 500gb SSD (pricey) that also puts me off.

I am going to see if I can cut this down by 100GB+ though because a lot of that has to be trash (maybe something to do with posgres) and then I can think about maybe getting a 250GB one.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:52 PM   #18
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

So, standard advice before tearing into this: You should make a full system backup to an external USB drive. If you don't already have one, you can purchase a 1 or 2TB drive inexpensively. You should continue to back up your system to the external drive on a weekly or monthly cadence. When not using the drive for backup, it should be physically disconnected from your computer and powered down. This provides you with some protection in the event of a cryptolocker style infection. Buying 2 drives and alternating backups is even better.

The free version of TreeSize is worth pulling down to see where your space is being used.
http://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/

Depending on the migration software you're using, you may also need to use a bootable partition resizing tool. GPartEd is one option, there are many. You should make the partition as small as feasible for your remaining data, you can inflate the partition to full disk size after migration via Windows disk management.
http://gparted.org/livecd.php

You should still upgrade your RAM. Assuming your current RAM is in a sane configuration, you should have 2x1GB sticks and 2x2GB sticks. I'd suggest buying 2x4GB sticks and putting those in place of the 1GB sticks. Buying used is a good option here. There should be a lot of working pulls available as newer systems for the past couple years are on DDR4.

The Samsung 850 EVO Thunderbolts mentioned is a great go to for price/performance. Looks like Amazon UK has those for 89GBP for a 250. A 500GB drive gives you a bit more breathing room and either of these can be migrated forward to a new desktop. Laptops would be more hit or miss because more and more laptops are ditching the 2.5" drive bay for M.2 slot only.
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Old 03-18-2017, 09:08 AM   #19
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by headtrauma View Post
So, standard advice before tearing into this: You should make a full system backup to an external USB drive. If you don't already have one, you can purchase a 1 or 2TB drive inexpensively. You should continue to back up your system to the external drive on a weekly or monthly cadence. When not using the drive for backup, it should be physically disconnected from your computer and powered down. This provides you with some protection in the event of a cryptolocker style infection. Buying 2 drives and alternating backups is even better.

The free version of TreeSize is worth pulling down to see where your space is being used.
http://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/

Depending on the migration software you're using, you may also need to use a bootable partition resizing tool. GPartEd is one option, there are many. You should make the partition as small as feasible for your remaining data, you can inflate the partition to full disk size after migration via Windows disk management.
http://gparted.org/livecd.php

You should still upgrade your RAM. Assuming your current RAM is in a sane configuration, you should have 2x1GB sticks and 2x2GB sticks. I'd suggest buying 2x4GB sticks and putting those in place of the 1GB sticks. Buying used is a good option here. There should be a lot of working pulls available as newer systems for the past couple years are on DDR4.

The Samsung 850 EVO Thunderbolts mentioned is a great go to for price/performance. Looks like Amazon UK has those for 89GBP for a 250. A 500GB drive gives you a bit more breathing room and either of these can be migrated forward to a new desktop. Laptops would be more hit or miss because more and more laptops are ditching the 2.5" drive bay for M.2 slot only.
Thanks, I should probably buy the back external hard drive and get that out of the way ASAP as I have never even considered doing that before and my computer is about 10 years old.

I will look into it cheers.

EDIT: I took the 500GB out on my PS4 and swapped it for 1TB hargrove when i bought it a few years back, can i just put that old PS4 HD in this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tool-free-I...ive+case&psc=1

and use that as a backup hard drive? I can save £40 that way.

Last edited by reddev; 03-18-2017 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:50 PM   #20
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

That enclosure should work just fine. I'm not certain how a PS4 formatted drive will look when initially connected to Windows. Let us know if you need help getting it formatted to NTFS and/or partitioned.

Win7 Built in Backup tool:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ack-up-restore
or you could use a free or paid 3rd party tool.
Macrium Reflect free version:
http://download.cnet.com/Macrium-Ref...-10845728.html
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:40 AM   #21
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddev View Post
I have also somehow managed to use up 280Gb of hard drive space even though I have nothing on my machine ...
This, along with your performance issues, sounds much like you (a) didn't prevent PSQL from creating those huge logfiles, and (b) are in general negligent of database optimization and maintenance.

Taking care of the above is crucial and will vastly decrease the HDD space required and at the same time increase database performance. There are detailed guides over on the HM forums, or you could ask for help in the HM support thread.

http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/ques...arge+Log+Files
http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/cate...L+Maintenance/

edit: As a HDD user it's also crucial to defrag your drive on a regular basis

Last edited by Baobhan-Sith; 03-19-2017 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:05 AM   #22
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baobhan-Sith View Post
This, along with your performance issues, sounds much like you (a) didn't prevent PSQL from creating those huge logfiles, and (b) are in general negligent of database optimization and maintenance.

Taking care of the above is crucial and will vastly decrease the HDD space required and at the same time increase database performance. There are detailed guides over on the HM forums, or you could ask for help in the HM support thread.

http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/ques...arge+Log+Files
http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/cate...L+Maintenance/

edit: As a HDD user it's also crucial to defrag your drive on a regular basis
I did actually delete those huge files ages ago after finding the HM info page and the other day I did all the performance tings in HM2 maintenance but unfortunately it didn't improve HM2 performance.

I do think you are right with the space being taken up by my old HM1 though so I am about to download treesize and find out exactly where all the space has gone and go form there. I suspect a lot of the space is being taken up by my old HM1 but I am not exactly sure how/where yet.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:49 AM   #23
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddev View Post
I did actually delete those huge files ages ago after finding the HM info page and the other day I did all the performance tings in HM2 maintenance but unfortunately it didn't improve HM2 performance.

I do think you are right with the space being taken up by my old HM1 though so I am about to download treesize and find out exactly where all the space has gone and go form there. I suspect a lot of the space is being taken up by my old HM1 but I am not exactly sure how/where yet.
EDIT: After using trees it seems I have a Folder in RVG software for HM1 that is 96GB in size!
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:51 AM   #24
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Getting rid of bit defender in favor of AVG? Using Internet Explorer?

As far as bad practices go, I'd say keep it up, but also make sure you're not using an ad blocker so you get even more malware, ensure you're on an administrative account so malware can keep installing itself without your permission, and the next time your computer is running slow, try pouring a glass of water over it. Poor thing is probably really thirsty.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:44 PM   #25
reddev
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Re: Should computer performance socres go down with time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib View Post
Getting rid of bit defender in favor of AVG? Using Internet Explorer?

As far as bad practices go, I'd say keep it up, but also make sure you're not using an ad blocker so you get even more malware, ensure you're on an administrative account so malware can keep installing itself without your permission, and the next time your computer is running slow, try pouring a glass of water over it. Poor thing is probably really thirsty.
Ye because I purposely Run programs that are less effective than others

I have already said I don't know anything about computers and AVG was what was recommended to me. I did also say there was a reason I swapped which was because HM wouldn't start with bitdefender installed.

I do have ad blocker and I do use an admin account.
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