Do you need a computer and don't know what to buy? *get help here*
08-31-2011
, 03:37 AM
Quick primer on PC components:
Operating system:
If you’re buying new then you probably want Windows 7, the 64-bit version (not the 32-bit). It’s common but just double check.
Macs of course have their own thing going and it’s proprietary to Apple machines, kind of a package deal.
In some special circumstances, a home-builder might want to take a shot with a Linux distribution. Options like Ubuntu and Fedora are out there free, and are capable operating systems in their own right. You can browse the internet and setup email, write documents, watch videos, and worry a lot less about malware/viruses, and have a light installation. The downside is a lot of software doesn’t run on Linux, and you’re at the mercy of the Linux community for support. If you have simple needs you might want to experiment with it and so how you like it.
Processors:
The 2011 Intel i5 processors are my starting point right now, as far a performance and value. You can identify them from the older i5s by their model numbers; the newer ones have four digits instead of three. For example, the i5-2500 or i5-2300. These are quad-core chips. These are among the top chips available, the prices go up a lot from here.
There are many other good options, the newer dual-core i3’s like the i3-2100 are good values but not as powerful. The last generation i5-750 and i5-750 are nice quad cores (some models are dual-core, you should probably avoid), and the older i7s like the 860, 920 and 930 and so on might still show up new.
AMD has some chips around this range which are also good values, the Phenom 4 and Phenom 6 lines have a few you’d be happy with, but there’s a lot of chips under those names and some are much better than others.
The new i7s are excellent but there’s a $100 price difference. I’d make this one of the last upgrades you dedicate money to, for example a nice solid state drive would give you much better bang for your buck speed-wise.
Memory/RAM:
4GB RAM is more than enough for the vast majority of everyday users, though the price of RAM has fallen so far it’s not terribly expensive to add more if you want.
Just keep in mind that the street price for 8GB is as little as $40, and it’s a very easy DIY job to add or replace RAM sticks in your computer. Don’t get scalped by a PC manufacturer to upgrade from 4GB to 6GB or something.
Motherboards:
Well it has to fit your CPU, memory, video cards, and have the kind of connections you want. In short, if the CPU is a Socket 1155, then so is the board – socket 1156 isn’t close enough.
Nearly all video cards work on PCI-Express slots, and nearly all current motherboards have at least one. Then there are usually either 2 or 4 RAM slots for DDR3 memory, and if you ask me 2 slots is fine. That’s enough to hold 8GB which should be plenty of excess for the life of your machine.
If you don’t need a video card and use integrated video, then you need to ensure the motherboard has integrated video. An easy way to tell is by identifying DVI, VGA, or HDMI ports on it, but it helps to know what chipset the board is for more info. For example, newer H67 and Z68 motherboards have integrated video for the newer Intel chips, but P67 boards require you to use a card.
Another concern is size, it has to fit the case. ATX is the most common and standard, but you need an ATX-sized case to put it in. Smaller form factor motherboards can fit into smaller form factor cases. It’s also normal to have a micro ATX motherboard in a regular ATX case (I do myself). See Cases section for more details.
Hard Drives:
Most new computers come with garden-variety hard drives with anywhere from 500 gigabytes to 1 or 2 terabytes of storage. That’s a lot of space for most users, I really wouldn’t focus on what hard drive is included in a new off-the-shelf computer all that much. Yes, some are better than others, but mass storage is cheap and 1 terabyte drives are hard for most people to fill up. A lot of people get caught up in hard drive size when buying but in reality it’s only a tiny fraction of where your money is going.
If you’re building, you have endless options to choose from. Western Digital Black drives are pretty reliable choices last I looked. I’d say look for something with good ratings, that runs at 7,200 rpm speed with 32MB cache. Personally, I think they’re still useful for people who need a lot of space and don’t want to spend a lot, but compared to solid-state drives they’re just slow.
Solid State Drives:
These perform the same function as hard drives but are many times faster, cost more, and generally have less storage. I consider them such a difference-maker in terms of overall computer speed, I recommend investing in one before even considering upgrading your processor or adding more RAM.
Most off-the-shelf systems don’t include one or even have them as an option yet, but that’s fine as it’s better to purchase and install one yourself; it’s painless. You only need a screwdriver and a couple of minutes.
When buying an SSD, you need to know if your computer has SATA 6gb/s ports inside, or just SATA 3gb/s ports. Many of the newer SSD drives move data so quickly that the older SATA 3gb/s aren’t fast enough to keep up. SATA 6gb/s is commonly referred to as “SATA3” while SATA 3gb/s are called “SATA2.” That can be a little confusing, I know.
A lot of people don’t want to spend serious money on a SSD to stay on budget, but you don’t necessarily need to. Many people buy a smaller one, say 60 or 64GB in size (can be found around $100 or sometimes less as I write this), and put Windows and their programs on that to make them all run fast. Mass storage (things like videos, MP3s, pictures) can go on the standard hard drive, which can also be used to store a backup of your main drive.
Shopping for SSDs can be tricky, there are still a lot of growing pains with the technology. Right now there are lots of brands and firmware controllers having problems, recalls in a couple of cases.
DVD drives:
These are standard, every computer comes with a DVD burner, they’re a dime a dozen and worth about $20. Often there’s an option to upgrade to a Blu-Ray drive; up to you, but like most things you can buy and install one yourself easily. Just note that with Blu-Ray’s drives, there may or may not be software included to actually play Blu-Rays, but I’m sure you can find some online.
Power Supplies:
In store-bought computers, these are usually off-brand parts, it comes with the territory. PC enthusiasts care about PSUs, but your typical computer shopper doesn’t. So they’re likely to be less efficient and less reliable. Another real concern with these is if you intend to add a video card after purchasing a manufacturer PC. Video cards draw power, a lot of power in some circumstances, and you may need to investigate a bit to make sure the included PSU is up to the task.
Video cards:
Optional. Not all computers have them. More often than not with store-bought systems, the graphics are produced from a chip built into the motherboard, also known as integrated graphics (IGP). These days integrated video works great for normal computer use. You can play DVDs or Blu-Rays, poker, and some light games without issue.
Companies like Dell can sometimes get a little tricky and make integrated graphics appear like a video card in the specs; often it’s just the nomenclature of the integrated video engine you’re reading and not an actual discrete video card. With the recent i3/i5/i7-based computers it’s a little easier, integrated is usually referred to as “Intel HD graphics.”
You usually require a bit more video power to keep up with graphically demanding applications, usually games, so you add a video card (sometimes, more than one). This is another one of those parts that’s easy to buy yourself and quick to install, but as mentioned in the Power Supplies section, you’ll need to know what kind of power limitations you might have. There’s usually some power to spare for an average card, but more power-hungry discrete cards might be a problem.
If you choose to just buy a video card with the system—not ideal, but many people do—you can assume the manufacturers included a suitable power supply. But, again, it will be some off-brand.
Cases
For the most part, it’s a box that you put the parts in, and if everything fits then you’re more or less okay. Some are better than others in terms of looks, airflow (keeping hot parts cool), or minimizing computer noise. It will probably have inputs for headphones, USB and that sort of thing in various front or top locations, whatever suits you is fine.
The big deal here is the case size. The standard format is ATX; just like with motherboards. There are also micro-ATX and other varieties for smaller form factors. In general, and ATX case should fit any motherboard except e-ATX (extended ATX).
Connectivity:
If you already own a monitor, you’ll need to check to make sure it’s compatible with the outputs on the back of the PC. With newer computers, you should expect to see an HDMI and/or a DVI connection standard, and usually the older VGA, so this isn’t usually a problem, but there are exceptions. Sometimes you’ll see DisplayPort also, common on Dell computers and monitors. Figure this out ahead of time so you can plan for getting an adapter or whatever.
Nowadays you’ll find USB2 ports on anything, maybe a mouse and keyboard (or combo mouse/keyboard) input. USB3 ports are newer, and you’re starting to see them pop up on systems. USB3 moves data 10x faster than USB2, so it might be a nice plus for you later down the road if your computer includes it. USB3 ports are easy to spot if you don’t have the spec sheet, same as USB, colored blue:
They’ll become commonplace pretty soon. Very modern hardware often has a couple of USB3 ports in the back of the PC, though cases with USB3 connectivity are still far and few in between.
E-Sata looks similar to USB in appearance and is sometimes a combo port. This interface can be connected to external devices like backup drives. It’s much faster than USB2 for external backups, but not as fast as USB3. In my opinion, you could do just as well with an extra internal drive for backups, or buy a USB3-compatible external backup. Unless you have a need for e-sata today I wouldn’t worry that much about it.
Where to learn more detailed information:
The best reference are the tech sites. Toms Hardware, Anandtech, HardOCP are a few of the big ones. They test and benchmark hardware and come up with buyer’s guides that you’ll find useful, especially Toms, with monthly “what to buy” articles on video cards, CPUs, and now SSD drive lists. At the end of all these you’ll see a hierarchy chart so you get a rough idea of how this model compares to that.
Pro tip… just Google the following: “Best graphics cards for the money [current month & year].” Swap out “graphics cards” for “CPUs” or “SSDs.” The articles have some tech talk in there but you can follow along for the most part.
Operating system:
If you’re buying new then you probably want Windows 7, the 64-bit version (not the 32-bit). It’s common but just double check.
Macs of course have their own thing going and it’s proprietary to Apple machines, kind of a package deal.
In some special circumstances, a home-builder might want to take a shot with a Linux distribution. Options like Ubuntu and Fedora are out there free, and are capable operating systems in their own right. You can browse the internet and setup email, write documents, watch videos, and worry a lot less about malware/viruses, and have a light installation. The downside is a lot of software doesn’t run on Linux, and you’re at the mercy of the Linux community for support. If you have simple needs you might want to experiment with it and so how you like it.
Processors:
The 2011 Intel i5 processors are my starting point right now, as far a performance and value. You can identify them from the older i5s by their model numbers; the newer ones have four digits instead of three. For example, the i5-2500 or i5-2300. These are quad-core chips. These are among the top chips available, the prices go up a lot from here.
There are many other good options, the newer dual-core i3’s like the i3-2100 are good values but not as powerful. The last generation i5-750 and i5-750 are nice quad cores (some models are dual-core, you should probably avoid), and the older i7s like the 860, 920 and 930 and so on might still show up new.
AMD has some chips around this range which are also good values, the Phenom 4 and Phenom 6 lines have a few you’d be happy with, but there’s a lot of chips under those names and some are much better than others.
The new i7s are excellent but there’s a $100 price difference. I’d make this one of the last upgrades you dedicate money to, for example a nice solid state drive would give you much better bang for your buck speed-wise.
Memory/RAM:
4GB RAM is more than enough for the vast majority of everyday users, though the price of RAM has fallen so far it’s not terribly expensive to add more if you want.
Just keep in mind that the street price for 8GB is as little as $40, and it’s a very easy DIY job to add or replace RAM sticks in your computer. Don’t get scalped by a PC manufacturer to upgrade from 4GB to 6GB or something.
Motherboards:
Well it has to fit your CPU, memory, video cards, and have the kind of connections you want. In short, if the CPU is a Socket 1155, then so is the board – socket 1156 isn’t close enough.
Nearly all video cards work on PCI-Express slots, and nearly all current motherboards have at least one. Then there are usually either 2 or 4 RAM slots for DDR3 memory, and if you ask me 2 slots is fine. That’s enough to hold 8GB which should be plenty of excess for the life of your machine.
If you don’t need a video card and use integrated video, then you need to ensure the motherboard has integrated video. An easy way to tell is by identifying DVI, VGA, or HDMI ports on it, but it helps to know what chipset the board is for more info. For example, newer H67 and Z68 motherboards have integrated video for the newer Intel chips, but P67 boards require you to use a card.
Another concern is size, it has to fit the case. ATX is the most common and standard, but you need an ATX-sized case to put it in. Smaller form factor motherboards can fit into smaller form factor cases. It’s also normal to have a micro ATX motherboard in a regular ATX case (I do myself). See Cases section for more details.
Hard Drives:
Most new computers come with garden-variety hard drives with anywhere from 500 gigabytes to 1 or 2 terabytes of storage. That’s a lot of space for most users, I really wouldn’t focus on what hard drive is included in a new off-the-shelf computer all that much. Yes, some are better than others, but mass storage is cheap and 1 terabyte drives are hard for most people to fill up. A lot of people get caught up in hard drive size when buying but in reality it’s only a tiny fraction of where your money is going.
If you’re building, you have endless options to choose from. Western Digital Black drives are pretty reliable choices last I looked. I’d say look for something with good ratings, that runs at 7,200 rpm speed with 32MB cache. Personally, I think they’re still useful for people who need a lot of space and don’t want to spend a lot, but compared to solid-state drives they’re just slow.
Solid State Drives:
These perform the same function as hard drives but are many times faster, cost more, and generally have less storage. I consider them such a difference-maker in terms of overall computer speed, I recommend investing in one before even considering upgrading your processor or adding more RAM.
Most off-the-shelf systems don’t include one or even have them as an option yet, but that’s fine as it’s better to purchase and install one yourself; it’s painless. You only need a screwdriver and a couple of minutes.
When buying an SSD, you need to know if your computer has SATA 6gb/s ports inside, or just SATA 3gb/s ports. Many of the newer SSD drives move data so quickly that the older SATA 3gb/s aren’t fast enough to keep up. SATA 6gb/s is commonly referred to as “SATA3” while SATA 3gb/s are called “SATA2.” That can be a little confusing, I know.
A lot of people don’t want to spend serious money on a SSD to stay on budget, but you don’t necessarily need to. Many people buy a smaller one, say 60 or 64GB in size (can be found around $100 or sometimes less as I write this), and put Windows and their programs on that to make them all run fast. Mass storage (things like videos, MP3s, pictures) can go on the standard hard drive, which can also be used to store a backup of your main drive.
Shopping for SSDs can be tricky, there are still a lot of growing pains with the technology. Right now there are lots of brands and firmware controllers having problems, recalls in a couple of cases.
DVD drives:
These are standard, every computer comes with a DVD burner, they’re a dime a dozen and worth about $20. Often there’s an option to upgrade to a Blu-Ray drive; up to you, but like most things you can buy and install one yourself easily. Just note that with Blu-Ray’s drives, there may or may not be software included to actually play Blu-Rays, but I’m sure you can find some online.
Power Supplies:
In store-bought computers, these are usually off-brand parts, it comes with the territory. PC enthusiasts care about PSUs, but your typical computer shopper doesn’t. So they’re likely to be less efficient and less reliable. Another real concern with these is if you intend to add a video card after purchasing a manufacturer PC. Video cards draw power, a lot of power in some circumstances, and you may need to investigate a bit to make sure the included PSU is up to the task.
Video cards:
Optional. Not all computers have them. More often than not with store-bought systems, the graphics are produced from a chip built into the motherboard, also known as integrated graphics (IGP). These days integrated video works great for normal computer use. You can play DVDs or Blu-Rays, poker, and some light games without issue.
Companies like Dell can sometimes get a little tricky and make integrated graphics appear like a video card in the specs; often it’s just the nomenclature of the integrated video engine you’re reading and not an actual discrete video card. With the recent i3/i5/i7-based computers it’s a little easier, integrated is usually referred to as “Intel HD graphics.”
You usually require a bit more video power to keep up with graphically demanding applications, usually games, so you add a video card (sometimes, more than one). This is another one of those parts that’s easy to buy yourself and quick to install, but as mentioned in the Power Supplies section, you’ll need to know what kind of power limitations you might have. There’s usually some power to spare for an average card, but more power-hungry discrete cards might be a problem.
If you choose to just buy a video card with the system—not ideal, but many people do—you can assume the manufacturers included a suitable power supply. But, again, it will be some off-brand.
Cases
For the most part, it’s a box that you put the parts in, and if everything fits then you’re more or less okay. Some are better than others in terms of looks, airflow (keeping hot parts cool), or minimizing computer noise. It will probably have inputs for headphones, USB and that sort of thing in various front or top locations, whatever suits you is fine.
The big deal here is the case size. The standard format is ATX; just like with motherboards. There are also micro-ATX and other varieties for smaller form factors. In general, and ATX case should fit any motherboard except e-ATX (extended ATX).
Connectivity:
If you already own a monitor, you’ll need to check to make sure it’s compatible with the outputs on the back of the PC. With newer computers, you should expect to see an HDMI and/or a DVI connection standard, and usually the older VGA, so this isn’t usually a problem, but there are exceptions. Sometimes you’ll see DisplayPort also, common on Dell computers and monitors. Figure this out ahead of time so you can plan for getting an adapter or whatever.
Nowadays you’ll find USB2 ports on anything, maybe a mouse and keyboard (or combo mouse/keyboard) input. USB3 ports are newer, and you’re starting to see them pop up on systems. USB3 moves data 10x faster than USB2, so it might be a nice plus for you later down the road if your computer includes it. USB3 ports are easy to spot if you don’t have the spec sheet, same as USB, colored blue:
They’ll become commonplace pretty soon. Very modern hardware often has a couple of USB3 ports in the back of the PC, though cases with USB3 connectivity are still far and few in between.
E-Sata looks similar to USB in appearance and is sometimes a combo port. This interface can be connected to external devices like backup drives. It’s much faster than USB2 for external backups, but not as fast as USB3. In my opinion, you could do just as well with an extra internal drive for backups, or buy a USB3-compatible external backup. Unless you have a need for e-sata today I wouldn’t worry that much about it.
Where to learn more detailed information:
The best reference are the tech sites. Toms Hardware, Anandtech, HardOCP are a few of the big ones. They test and benchmark hardware and come up with buyer’s guides that you’ll find useful, especially Toms, with monthly “what to buy” articles on video cards, CPUs, and now SSD drive lists. At the end of all these you’ll see a hierarchy chart so you get a rough idea of how this model compares to that.
Pro tip… just Google the following: “Best graphics cards for the money [current month & year].” Swap out “graphics cards” for “CPUs” or “SSDs.” The articles have some tech talk in there but you can follow along for the most part.
08-31-2011
, 10:25 AM
08-31-2011
, 05:33 PM
Quote:
This computer will mainly be used for poker. I have one 30inch and one 24inch monitor. I currently have a C2D Inspiron 530 which works alright but is getting old now.
GSKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB PC3-10666 Dual Channel DDR3 Kit (2 x 4GB)
ILC: 848354004691 SKU: MX33248 5
1
$54.99
$54.99
OCZ Vertex 2 E Series 2.5in SATA II Solid State Drive, 120GB
ILC: 842024018131 SKU: MX30739 1
1
$189.99
$189.99
Antec Sonata IV Case w/ 620W Power Supply, USB 3.0
ILC: 761345151504 SKU: MX31806 10+
1
$119.99
$119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 (64-bit) SP1 DVD - OEM
ILC: GFC-02050 SKU: MX32996 10+
1
$119.99
$119.99
Core™ i5-2500K Processor Bundle w/ Asus P8Z68-V LE Motherboard
1
$299.99
$299.99
1 x Intel - Core™ i5-2500K Processor, 3.30GHz w/ 6MB Cache $209.99
1 x Asus - P8Z68-V LE w/ Dual DDR3 1600, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, PCI-E, Quad CrossFireX $139.99
1 x - i5 2500k + P8Z68-V LE Promo (-$49.99)
Sub Total $784.95
+ 30$ mail-in rebate for the SSD.
Is this case and power supply fine? It says it has a 120mm cooling fan in it as well. I'm still missing a graphics card for the 30inch + 24inch monitors, but not sure what else. I know I can shop around and save like 50 bucks but I'd rather just get everything from one place.
decent?
GSKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB PC3-10666 Dual Channel DDR3 Kit (2 x 4GB)
ILC: 848354004691 SKU: MX33248 5
1
$54.99
$54.99
OCZ Vertex 2 E Series 2.5in SATA II Solid State Drive, 120GB
ILC: 842024018131 SKU: MX30739 1
1
$189.99
$189.99
Antec Sonata IV Case w/ 620W Power Supply, USB 3.0
ILC: 761345151504 SKU: MX31806 10+
1
$119.99
$119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 (64-bit) SP1 DVD - OEM
ILC: GFC-02050 SKU: MX32996 10+
1
$119.99
$119.99
Core™ i5-2500K Processor Bundle w/ Asus P8Z68-V LE Motherboard
1
$299.99
$299.99
1 x Intel - Core™ i5-2500K Processor, 3.30GHz w/ 6MB Cache $209.99
1 x Asus - P8Z68-V LE w/ Dual DDR3 1600, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, PCI-E, Quad CrossFireX $139.99
1 x - i5 2500k + P8Z68-V LE Promo (-$49.99)
Sub Total $784.95
+ 30$ mail-in rebate for the SSD.
Is this case and power supply fine? It says it has a 120mm cooling fan in it as well. I'm still missing a graphics card for the 30inch + 24inch monitors, but not sure what else. I know I can shop around and save like 50 bucks but I'd rather just get everything from one place.
decent?
Your motherboard won't fit in the case as it needs another 8/10" in the width department. .39 Inches = 1CM. Going to need a bigger Mid tower that can fit a 11.9" x 8.9" (round to 9" so you have extra room") or preferably a Full tower case so you can have adequate cooling. A decent Full Tower will run you around $100+.
Now for power supply options. Since you'll be running only a single video card I would say just get a 650-700W PS and you'll be good. There are cheap, mid, and expensive options.. Just make sure to find one with a good review and MAKE SURE TO CHECK THAT IT HAS THE CORRECT PIN TYPE FOR YOUR VIDEO CARD. Some card only require one 6 pin, some need a 8 pin (6+2 will suffice), and some require two 6 or two 8 pin connections to receive power. I cannot stress this enough. Too many people buy Power supplies and bitch about the product not working because they didn't do their homework.
Do you have another hard drive that you're going to put in there? As that SSD is great (quick boot times), but you will need more room quick, especially if you plan on gaming, storing music..etc.
For you're video card there's either Nvidia or ATI/AMD Radeon. Get a 1GB card in the price range of $80-$150. Just for future-proof sake a card in the $120 range is a good idea. Personally I prefer Nvidia, as it's generally more cost-effective for what you get. Unless you feel like spending a decent amount then go ATI. This is hotly debated and it's generally user preference. Don't get sucked into buying a card with say...15-20% extra performance for like $75 more. It's not worth it unless you're a die-hard gamer.
Now, this is where you need to see if you have DVI, VGA, or HDMI connections. I'm guessing that your monitors probably have DVI and possibly HDMI. A lot of cards have dual DVI monitor support and a 1x or 2x HDMI plug in if you want to connect that way.
Other than that you're build seems pretty spot-on. I'm personally an AMD guy myself
08-31-2011
, 06:37 PM
08-31-2011
, 08:40 PM
09-01-2011
, 07:29 AM
09-01-2011
, 04:18 PM
I'd actually say that the AMD X6 1090T is actually a damn good option compared to the i-2500:
Newegg prices:
X6 1090T - $160
i5-2500 - $210
So, for $50 more (31% more cost), you're only getting 21% more performance. Either way, both of those processors are pretty much at the very top of the bang-for-your-buck list.
The graph above is a little out of date with pricing. The cpubench/$ for the i5 is around 34.9 for the i5 and 37.8 for the X6 using newegg numbers.
Newegg prices:
X6 1090T - $160
i5-2500 - $210
So, for $50 more (31% more cost), you're only getting 21% more performance. Either way, both of those processors are pretty much at the very top of the bang-for-your-buck list.
The graph above is a little out of date with pricing. The cpubench/$ for the i5 is around 34.9 for the i5 and 37.8 for the X6 using newegg numbers.