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Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language?

01-12-2010 , 02:57 AM
I was thinking it would be possible to pick a BEST overall language. You could rank languages on many different categories, including # of words, precision, whether it's easy to learn, if it coorelates with good performance elsewhere, etc...

All-In Flynn says

Quote:
English has upwards of 1.2m words and French has, AFAIK, ~450k words
English is a very precise language, taking many more words to say what in Latin takes considerably less. Is precision worth the extra memory we have to use to learn words? Are some languages clearly better than others? What could be some negative effects?

Last edited by always_sunni_; 01-12-2010 at 03:11 AM.
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01-12-2010 , 06:32 AM
the 'best language' would be predetermined by your definition of 'best language', and influenced by your personal perspective. english isn't more precise than other languages. it's inconsistent, and an amalgam of many different languages and dialects, and there are english phrases that take longer to say in latin. the reason english has twice as many words as french is because there is a group of people that decides what new words to allow into the french language. this is not true with english.
english will most likely become a near universal 1st or 2nd language on earth, as the internet and international trade and communication spread. this has nothing to do with whether it's better than any other language. it's merely a result of much bigger forces. latin wasn't the 'best' language when it was universal in europe, just the language of the conquering empire. just like french in the renaissance, or arabic in the muslim world, or chinese in asia...

Last edited by brothertupelo; 01-12-2010 at 06:44 AM.
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01-12-2010 , 07:38 AM
Well, English contains almost the entire French vocabulary on account of England being under Normannic rule for quite some time, which by proxy means it has a lot of the latin Vocabulary, you have two almost complete vocabularies (Anglo-Saxon is the other) and a large portion of the Norse vocabulary from the Vikings.

It is debatable if this gives precision or lack thereof...I'd actually guess that it can give both. Like a high level computer language with many ways to the same destination I would think this puts the pressure on the user just as much as on on the language.

I don't think you'll be able to give the position English now has to other languages. For increasing precision, I'd actually go for increasing focus on maths education, since numbers really are the ultimate precision language.
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01-12-2010 , 08:50 AM
maybe a bit OT but i find this interesting.

chinese speakers can memorize more numbers because they have easier words for their numbers, according to outliers an avg chinese 4y old know numbers about as well as a western 5y old.

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yi (like saying "e") -- one
er (as in "how are you") -- two
san (San Marino) -- three
si (as in "do-si-do") -- four
wu (like "would" without the ld) -- five
liu (as in "in lieu of") -- six
chi (like the first part of "cheese" without the se) -- seven
ba (like the sound sheep make, "ba") -- eight
jiu (a bit like saying "geo") -- nine
shi (like telling someone "Shh, quiet please.") -- ten

Now that you've got the one to ten, counting up to 99 in Chinese is a breeze. It's far easier than most latin-based languaged and modelled after the idea of the beads in the abacus.

So, let us work on the teens. If you want to say 11. You essentially have one bead in the tens and one in the ones. So this translates to: shi yi
Twelve is: shi er
Thirteen is: shi san
Easy?

When you get to 20, you have two beads in the tens. So to say twenty you say: er shi
Twenty-one is: er shi yi
Twenty-two is: er shi er
And so on...

You can keep on doing this until you hit 99, which is jiu shi jiu.

When you hit 100, you can't say shi shi. Sounds quite funny. So there's another character for 100.
bai (sounds a bit like "to buy") -- hundred

The symbol for 100 is the image of a sun rising (or clarity) topped by the one. So in some way, 100 is a clearing [of the tens] in which the counting them starts all over again.

So 101 is bai yi.
One hundred and twenty-one is bai er shi yi.

This can take you up to 999 until you get a new number character for one thousand!
imo wasting tons of time boring the children with ineffective system is a waste of talent. same with forcing them to learn to write/read 50 letters when 25 would do the same job is also a waste of time. better to teach them that(to conform with society) when they are better at memorization-learning later at life.
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01-12-2010 , 09:58 AM
English is not a good language for this purpose.

Reason? Spelling.

fir
fur
fern
Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Quote
01-12-2010 , 10:25 AM
She wore a bow in her hair and took a bow on the bow of a boat with her beau while shooting a bow made from a bough.

Last edited by MortalWombat; 01-12-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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01-12-2010 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by always_sunni_
English is a very precise language, taking many more words to say what in Latin takes considerably less. Is precision worth the extra memory we have to use to learn words? Are some languages clearly better than others? What could be some negative effects?
First time I hear that.
I'm french, speak a bit of english (enough to read you), learned spanish and russian at school, learned ancient greek at university and had an initiation of arabian language.


In arabian, you have several way to say "one".

In english "you get up, down, out" or get whatever you want. In french you need 10 different words to say "get".

Just try to learn french conjugations or russian declensions and you'll agree with me : there is absolutly no doubt, english is far more easier than any of these language.
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01-12-2010 , 01:29 PM
Taking french this semester.... its tough, much harder than spanish imo
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01-12-2010 , 01:33 PM
The thread title and thread content seem to have a disconnect, but to answer the title: Yes.

I can think of many benefits of a unified language but I am hard pressed to come up with drawbacks.

It seems inevitable, anyway. I'm no expert on linguistics, but it seems to follow that when people speaking different languages form a community together they will end up speaking the same language. As the communication barriers go down, we are becoming one big community.
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01-12-2010 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benholio
The thread title and thread content seem to have a disconnect, but to answer the title: Yes.

I can think of many benefits of a unified language but I am hard pressed to come up with drawbacks.

It seems inevitable, anyway. I'm no expert on linguistics, but it seems to follow that when people speaking different languages form a community together they will end up speaking the same language. As the communication barriers go down, we are becoming one big community.
Yeah, this is already occurring. English is winning. Not necessarily because its the best language for universal adoption, but for other obvious reasons.
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01-12-2010 , 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Benholio
I can think of many benefits of a unified language but I am hard pressed to come up with drawbacks.
the cultural homogenization that is required to create the circumstances that would force learning a unified language on the world. i've taught english in korea, and many people have to have a certain level of fluency in it to advance in their careers, despite not having any need to use it.
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01-12-2010 , 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by brothertupelo
the cultural homogenization that is required to create the circumstances that would force learning a unified language on the world. i've taught english in korea, and many people have to have a certain level of fluency in it to advance in their careers, despite not having any need to use it.
fewer cultures to learn about FTW

I found some cool statistics
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The majority of the languages in the world are unwritten and many of them are disappearing. About 1/2 of the world's languages are no longer spoken by children. This is the first step in the extinction of a language. About 2,000 languages now have less than 1,000 speakers. The most threatened are the indigenous languages of Australia and the Americas. By the end of the 20th century, about 200 Australian languages survived, but more than 1/2 had less than 10 speakers. Two dozen had a single elderly speaker. Young Aborigines now predominantly speak English, especially in urban areas. There has been a similar pattern in California where Indian languages disappeared at the rate of nearly one a year during the late 20th century. Globally, the rate of language loss now is one every two weeks. The areas where indigenous languages are being lost the most rapidly are central South America, Oklahoma and the American Southwest, the Northwest coastal region of the U.S. and Canada, eastern Siberia, and northern Australia.
On a more political level,
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In 2001, the 189 member countries in the United Nations were asked what language they wish to use for communication with embassies from other countries. More than 120 chose English, 40 selected French, and 20 wanted to use Spanish. Those who wanted English to be the common language included all of the former Soviet republics, Vietnam, and most of the Arab world.
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01-12-2010 , 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by brothertupelo
the reason english has twice as many words as french is because there is a group of people that decides what new words to allow into the french language. this is not true with english.
exactly right. the following quote for my source backs up what u said.

Some nations strongly resist the acquisition of new words from other languages. This has been the case with the French government's response to the relentless invasion of English words in recent decades, especially in pop culture and technology. However, young people in most developed nations eagerly embrace new words regardless of attempts by their governments to retain "language purity."
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01-12-2010 , 04:13 PM
I support universal language.
It's convenient and the precious time people waste on learning many different languages could be spend much more productive.
As to which language should be the top dog... I dont care really, I speak 5 languages and English is my worst (which is probably obvious from this post) but I wouldn't mind if english was to become the universal language of this planet.
It's easy to learn and sounds good in songs so why not heh.

Last edited by Flip-Flop; 01-12-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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01-12-2010 , 04:24 PM
i think we should ask the judeo-christian god what he thinks about it...
Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Quote
01-12-2010 , 06:29 PM
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Quote
01-13-2010 , 12:05 AM
I suggest Chinese. Most of the world is speaking it already anyway.

It's a logical, no-frills language. Few inconsistencies, few exceptions, and almost NO GRAMMAR.

Written Chinese is horribly inefficient however. It seems to take a lot longer to read ( no skimming seems possible ) and ofcourse it takes your WHOLE childhood to learn most of the common characters.
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01-13-2010 , 12:18 AM
I don't know if it would be better per se, but it would sure make traveling to different parts of the world easier.

Language is very strongly tied to culture, and culture is not a bond easily loosened and broken.
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01-13-2010 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joerii
I suggest Chinese. Most of the world is speaking it already anyway.
not even close.
Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Quote
01-13-2010 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joerii
I suggest Chinese. Most of the world is speaking it already anyway.

It's a logical, no-frills language. Few inconsistencies, few exceptions, and almost NO GRAMMAR.

Written Chinese is horribly inefficient however. It seems to take a lot longer to read ( no skimming seems possible ) and ofcourse it takes your WHOLE childhood to learn most of the common characters.
This seems like enough to disqualify it.
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01-13-2010 , 10:45 AM
mildly related, i've read that korean script (hangul) is the best wiriting system around for a bunch of reasons relating to readability and simplicity
Would the world be better if everyone spoke the same language? Quote
01-13-2010 , 11:27 AM
I'm learning Chinese in college and while the spoken language is VERY easy, the written aspect makes it very inaccessible to outsiders. Every word has a unique character which usually only vague clues as to the meaning or pronunciation of the word.

If Chinese people used a phonetic alphabet it would be a leading candidate for a global language but they're not gonna change, nor should they. Language isn't just there to communicate, it's an intrinsic part of culture and tradition and there are more important things in life than efficiency.
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01-13-2010 , 11:31 AM
How the **** do they type chinese (or korean or japanese for that matter) on the keyboard? Seems absolutely impossible.
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01-13-2010 , 12:00 PM
I'd also note that it is debatable if it is always the case that two people speaking English are speaking the same language.

Well obviously they are if we assume the above sentence to be syntactically correct, but consider that it might mean something else and it becomes an example of what I mean.
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