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| Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy. |
07-27-2012, 07:17 PM
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#61
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banned
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: madnak's biggest fan
Posts: 304
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
Does a species have eyes developed so that they can see/navigate very well in the dark and light? Giving humans the ability to not need sleep doesn't provide much utility by itself, what can they do with it?
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07-28-2012, 01:20 AM
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#62
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old hand
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by omnimirage the II
Does a species have eyes developed so that they can see/navigate very well in the dark and light? Giving humans the ability to not need sleep doesn't provide much utility by itself, what can they do with it?
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You are thinking of it too much as a game to be won, and using forward thinking (which is what people generally have some skill in).
If I happen to move toward light and you don't, I will happen to have a greater chance at survival under certain conditions and less under other conditions.
No plan. No strategy. Just happenstance.
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07-30-2012, 01:30 AM
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#63
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old hand
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
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Originally Posted by thebreaker27
First Link I Open.
From what I've seen, the ability to really focus don't seem to go over 4 hours (Talent Code book for reference), I speculate that meditation, naps and exercise can increase this time.
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For argument's sake, I will accept your claim of 4 hours (although I'd put it at more like 20 minutes for complicated tasks or learning new things).
But why would one want to increase focus beyond that? You don't enjoy your mind flitting about?
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07-30-2012, 02:55 AM
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#64
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,710
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
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Originally Posted by Lestat
You really do have problems when it comes to grasping 0% and what the word 'never' means, don't you? You should fix that about yourself.
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See I think you are suggesting this lady slept sometimes, but I don't think she did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebreaker27
From what I've been reading, the more your learn new skills the more you sleep. Looking at great achievers in competitive fields with an easy to distinguish skill level biography's you can also see that they sleep a lot.
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Leonardi Da Vinci will break down that suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
But why would one want to increase focus beyond that? You don't enjoy your mind flitting about?
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One could try to learn to focus infinite, so to never again not.
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07-30-2012, 08:56 AM
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#65
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grinder
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Talk to the foot.
Posts: 486
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
For argument's sake, I will accept your claim of 4 hours (although I'd put it at more like 20 minutes for complicated tasks or learning new things).
But why would one want to increase focus beyond that? You don't enjoy your mind flitting about?
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I like both, I started coaching a kid at soccer for free, he is improving very fast so far but he is already 12, also I want to learn faster at work and I am starting this week to play poker again; plus helping my brother with college if he listen.
Judging from Ericsson work you only would improve while keeping out the autonomous phase, so I would like to be able to do it for longer.
I just had an idea while typing, will try to put flow conditions at the training. Hurray!
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07-31-2012, 04:03 AM
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#66
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old hand
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
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Originally Posted by newguy1234
One could try to learn to focus infinite, so to never again not.
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One could, but one probably would fail.
And even assuming one did, one probably shouldn't. There are much more interesting/fun things to do instead.
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08-19-2012, 04:50 AM
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#67
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grinder
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 434
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
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Originally Posted by Blabble
There are legends of massively productive (not necessarily re-productive) people who slept significantly less than the average person - Da Vinci -2 hours a night; Thomas Jefferson - 2 hours; Edison - 5 hours; Isaac Newton 3-4 hours; Ben Franklin 2-4; etc.
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http://memorymentor.com/blog/mental-...enius-routine/
Einstein used to sleep a lot !
Quote:
3. He used to sleep a lot.
This is not just any sleep, but targeted sleep with specific goals in mind. Einstein used to sleep for 10-11 hours every night and when you sleep, you are in a subconscious and unconscious state of mind. The greater the depth of sleep, the more connected on awakening you become to parts of the subconscious and unconscious minds. For Einstein, this meant that his creativity, intuition and level of insight was completely abnormal and astronomical. His conscious mind was also made extremely sharp from the level of sleep. Therefore, he was able to have an extremely focused, and sharp mind alongside his strong subconscious connection, allowing him to solve difficult problems with ease.
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Edit quote this
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Originally Posted by masque de Z
Of course not, AI is not biological probably so sleep wont be needed and the brain has special benefits from sleep but also heart and other organs. The immune system is very interesting too with sleep playing a role. (that wiki link is very good actually). My point is that sleep is contributing to the system, its not a waste , its not just rest, its a lot more than that , its opportunity for other function to take place. We need it for more than the simplistic sense of being tired and afterward feeling rested. Its vitally important for more systems even muscles and bones.
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---> AIs wouldn't exist without a body (Hardware). Now the question is, can the hardware to be turned on forever without resting ? The answer can be yes if enough energy is given. Could then be possible the only purpose for sleep is to consume less energy (resources) ? That would be wise.
Last edited by hypergeometry; 08-19-2012 at 05:09 AM.
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08-23-2012, 06:37 AM
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#68
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 445
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
If it was possible to evolve to the point where humans did not sleep, there would also need to be good reason for such evolution.
Let's say that many humans were being killed in their sleep by those who were awake. Or, that those that slept less used the extra time that they weren't sleeping to successfully mate more often.
The gene pool would increasingly become dominated by those who slept the least. In time, only those who had evolved to the state of never needing sleep would survive.
It's perhaps surprising, in many ways, that this hasn't been how things have turned out, but it logically leads to the conclusion that if your sleep patterns stray to far from the median, you probably aren't functioning effectively, as a human being.
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08-23-2012, 08:06 AM
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#69
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Off my lawn you little punk!
Posts: 8,126
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
^^^This assumes there's no cost to not sleeping. If there IS a cost to not sleeping (or sleeping so little that it's effectively not sleeping), it would not become a fixed trait.
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08-24-2012, 01:29 AM
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#70
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: $13.38/hr in 2012
Posts: 13,136
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdock100
Some other things to think about:
1. When you are sleeping your metabolism goes way down. Probably evolutionary advantageous when resources are scarce.
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Being awake to forage 24h would be a huge advantage. Warm-blooded animals tend to outcompete cold-blooded counterparts because they can spend more time gathering resources (don't need to spend time on regulating temperature by sunning, etc).
Quote:
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2. For humans that rely so heavily on sight and have a high cone/rod ratio (meaning poor night vision) probably evolutionarily advantageous to be hiding in a cave at night being quiet than stumbling around in the dark with lions and tigers that can see much better than you.
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While this is true, we obviously developed sleep way before we developed into humans. All vertebrates sleep.
Wouldn't it be better to go into a period of lethargy that would have the same advantages of slowing metabolism and keeping us from wandering into trouble that didn't involve becoming unaware of your surroundings?
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08-24-2012, 03:53 AM
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#71
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe fiasco
Posts: 1,349
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Re: Why haven't humans 'evolved' to not need sleep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
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there is a high correlation/causality between sleep and "system" repair in human body
I would assume that operational repair of damage tissue is somehow inefficient if you are awake
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