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Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts?

08-04-2017 , 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
I am here. You are there. One of us could be in Cleveland, I guess.
Thank God we're not.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
It'll feel being the wrong question to ask. Because there's no alternative.

Why am I in this life situation? That can be fruitful to think about, if done properly.

Maybe these two are mixed up?
See above. It is pretty much just a combination of oxytocin and friction and the occasional combinations of such things plus a potato famine and other such things.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
I've always been here. Where else could I be?

Asking - why am I here - implies you could be somewhere else...where?


A more specific question of that kind is like 'what is my purpose here and what can choose now to fulfill it?'

As people report, purpose and fulfillment are satisfying. Which is enriches meaning.

Love is an example of a purpose which is instantly available to choose and relates with fulfillment and satisfaction.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 01:04 AM
https://youtu.be/dzyDTV6EzUs

Here Watts brutally understands and merciless explores thoughts about science.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 01:10 AM
One of my favourites:

“We are living in a culture entirely hypnotized by the illusion of time, in which the so-called present moment is felt as nothing but an infintesimal hairline between an all-powerfully causative past and an absorbingly important future. We have no present. Our consciousness is almost completely preoccupied with memory and expectation. We do not realize that there never was, is, nor will be any other experience than present experience. We are therefore out of touch with reality. We confuse the world as talked about, described, and measured with the world which actually is. We are sick with a fascination for the useful tools of names and numbers, of symbols, signs, conceptions and ideas.

Tomorrow and plans for tomorrow can have no significance at all unless you are in full contact with the reality of the present, since it is in the present and only in the present that you live. There is no other reality than present reality, so that, even if one were to live for endless ages, to live for the future would be to miss the point everlastingly.”

― Alan W. Watts
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno
[My Bold]

You are on everyone's list. Mostly their hate list I would assume. And they are just more afraid of you than me. I'm too nice, playing the duel role has its disadvantages. I need to rearrange my priorities.

There are good weasels and there are bad weasels. You veer toward the good. Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

Chez veers towards the bad, and his priorities became skewed. Too much Kurtosis in his veins.
I can assure you that you are well-loved. Just not by many, which is a good thing.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Dozens of posts of personal attacks by feather-ruffled Watts fanbois, but not a SINGLE quote of something he said that's praiseworthy.
"ToothSayer suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun"
- Alan Watts

Last edited by Zamadhi; 08-04-2017 at 06:17 AM.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
Krishnamurti is beyond thought... That's his entire point: "go beyond all thoughts where only choiceless awareness remains".

But you are incapable of understanding this because you are constantly looking for the complex instead of seeing truth in its utter simplicity. Your own intellect is your own prison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
"ToothSayer suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun"
- Alan Watts
For someone into zen, you guys sure get super butthurt, snarky, and holier-than-thou when someone refuses to take your brainless, spineless, soulless religion seriously. Christians are more zen-like than you guys. Heck, plenty of Muslims are.

We're all one, remember? I am you, you are me. we are all the universe. What you see as me suffering from, it is in fact you who are suffering from that same thing. Because there is no you, and no me, only ego. Your ego is making you throw up differences between us, because you are afraid. Afraid that my mockery means you are wrong or less powerful than you hoped you would be. But fear comes from ego - without ego, there is no fear. You need to learn to let go of your ego, and the divisions you see will melt away, because I am you. When you criticize me, you are really criticizing yourself.

I can give some videos from Alan Watts to help you on this journey.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 08:28 AM
Lol
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
For someone into zen, you guys sure get super butthurt, snarky, and holier-than-thou when someone refuses to take your brainless, spineless, soulless religion seriously. Christians are more zen-like than you guys. Heck, plenty of Muslims are.

We're all one, remember? I am you, you are me. we are all the universe. What you see as me suffering from, it is in fact you who are suffering from that same thing. Because there is no you, and no me, only ego. Your ego is making you throw up differences between us, because you are afraid. Afraid that my mockery means you are wrong or less powerful than you hoped you would be. But fear comes from ego - without ego, there is no fear. You need to learn to let go of your ego, and the divisions you see will melt away, because I am you. When you criticize me, you are really criticizing yourself.

I can give some videos from Alan Watts to help you on this journey.


Straw Guru.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 08:54 AM
We are agents living the discovery of our mission.


PairTheBoard
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:01 AM
I Led Three Lives S02E37 Child Commie





PairTheBoard
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:21 AM
Return to the rainbows : the study of the rainbow complex necessarily returns to the question of our understanding of light, ala Newton (corpuscle) and Huygens (wave).

Goethe, our poet/scientist excitedly sought apparatus to confirm Newton and had to borrow a prism from a privy councilor as he couldn't order one from his usual online supplier. He received the apparatae and placed them into a corner for another day.

Fast forward in time, the councilor demanded the return of prisms and and Goethe then rushed to his laboratory and using a hole in a darkened window to ;produce the cone of light (his projector wasn't working) he then saw this as I have previously referenced in another thread.


http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA3...es/light2c.gif


Note that there are two color combinations of the displaced light; the blue fringe superiorly and the yellow/red fringe as the inferior. He was surprised as he had hoped to see the full color(s) of the rainbow projected on the screen but to no avail. He did note that if one narrows the cone of light the top and bottom color combinations would come closer together and the rainbow of colors would appear.

He then became skeptical and saw that the Newton idea of light being broken up by the prism to be fallacious but he raised the salient point.

The color image(s) arose wherever the crease(edge) in the prism intersected with light ; the colors were the result of light intersecting with and edge or in another words the intersection of light and darkness. Yes, Darth Vader speaks.

Seriously, the intersection of light (brightness) and darkness becomes creative in the color realm ; a polarity approached through scientific study which of course borders and has been carried over over into the philosophic/religious spheres prior to Goethe.

Nonetheless the findings are of what has been mentioned the idea of phenomenological science without the theorizing prevalent today. Goethe didn't see light as material ala Newton nor wave ala Huygens but clarified the experimental findings without presupposition.

I'll repeat, the color wasn't contained within the light but was consequential to the interaction of light (brightness) and darkness.

Certain things follow for if we place ourselves within a brightly light room one will naturally feel expansive whereas within a darkened room there is an experience of compresiveness (better word here ?). this leads to the concept that darkness is not the absence of light, as per Newton and followers , but an entity in and of itself. Just as one can speak of intensities of brightness, in so called gradation, so can one speak of gradations of darkness which stands alone. This can be a hard nut to swallow I know, but one's experience in life can confirm the same.

The idea that if a box is blue that all the other colors within light are swallowed up by the box while the blue corpuscle is reflected is brought to question.

Before going further it should be noted that in this type of scientific study concepts are brought forth which are presented to work within the whole and can be denied if further evaluation proves the better; no need for dogma. the heavenly bodies of sun, planets and stars revolve, in movement, irrespective of our desires and need not confirm the question "what holds us up ?". they hold each other up, a platform of comprehensibility of cosmic origin.

Each of us can relate to brightnes and darkness and for this I will go to the seafaring Brits who have probably heard it but certainly the American sailor is aware of it:

" Red at night is a sailors delight, and red in the morning is a sailor's forewarning" .

At sea, it can better be seen but as the darkness arises with clouds in the sky if one looks at the setting sun through the clouds one sees "light seen through the darkness" and there will appear red.

Laboratory experiments cn confirm this by passing light through columns of liquid and actually different colors can arise if using substances like chlorophyll but that's ahead of the game.

Similarly one knows that the sky is darkness at night save for stars, if seen and other revolving type planets. During the day one looks at this darkened sky and sees blue. "Darkness seen through the light is blue ".

I'll repeat ;

" light seen through the darkness appears as red" while,

" darkness seen through the light appears as blue".

Such is the beginnings of a polaric concept of brightness and darkness. Thanx.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
See above. It is pretty much just a combination of oxytocin and friction and the occasional combinations of such things plus a potato famine and other such things.
Now I'm supposed to say: "Are you Irish?"
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
For someone into zen, you guys sure get super butthurt, snarky, and holier-than-thou when someone refuses to take your brainless, spineless, soulless religion seriously. Christians are more zen-like than you guys. Heck, plenty of Muslims are.

We're all one, remember? I am you, you are me. we are all the universe. What you see as me suffering from, it is in fact you who are suffering from that same thing. Because there is no you, and no me, only ego. Your ego is making you throw up differences between us, because you are afraid. Afraid that my mockery means you are wrong or less powerful than you hoped you would be. But fear comes from ego - without ego, there is no fear. You need to learn to let go of your ego, and the divisions you see will melt away, because I am you. When you criticize me, you are really criticizing yourself.

I can give some videos from Alan Watts to help you on this journey.
Tooth on good way to become a guru. Do you already have a ponytail?
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
For someone into zen, you guys sure get super butthurt, snarky, and holier-than-thou when someone refuses to take your brainless, spineless, soulless religion seriously. Christians are more zen-like than you guys. Heck, plenty of Muslims are.

We're all one, remember? I am you, you are me. we are all the universe. What you see as me suffering from, it is in fact you who are suffering from that same thing. Because there is no you, and no me, only ego. Your ego is making you throw up differences between us, because you are afraid. Afraid that my mockery means you are wrong or less powerful than you hoped you would be. But fear comes from ego - without ego, there is no fear. You need to learn to let go of your ego, and the divisions you see will melt away, because I am you. When you criticize me, you are really criticizing yourself.

I can give some videos from Alan Watts to help you on this journey.
Finally I-You are learning!

Last edited by Zamadhi; 08-04-2017 at 09:43 AM.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
We are agents living the discovery of our mission.


PairTheBoard
http://markymunster.com/getsmart.html
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
Finally I-You are learning!
ISWYDT

Yo FMP'd
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
Tooth on good way to become a guru. Do you already have a ponytail?
Had one, not any more. After seeing Watts' incredible ability to becuck minds with < 100 IQ, I'm rethinking my approach to several things.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
One of my favourites:

“We are living in a culture entirely hypnotized by the illusion of time, in which the so-called present moment is felt as nothing but an infintesimal hairline between an all-powerfully causative past and an absorbingly important future. We have no present. Our consciousness is almost completely preoccupied with memory and expectation. We do not realize that there never was, is, nor will be any other experience than present experience. We are therefore out of touch with reality. We confuse the world as talked about, described, and measured with the world which actually is. We are sick with a fascination for the useful tools of names and numbers, of symbols, signs, conceptions and ideas.

Tomorrow and plans for tomorrow can have no significance at all unless you are in full contact with the reality of the present, since it is in the present and only in the present that you live. There is no other reality than present reality, so that, even if one were to live for endless ages, to live for the future would be to miss the point everlastingly.”

― Alan W. Watts
A classic problem, not the best analysis I've seen. Will try to formulate a better one.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 06:51 PM
Like everything he says it's nonsense. We live part of our lives in the future and much of it in the present. It's not either/or. No one who's in bed with a girl they like, for example, is living in the future. They're living right in the present. Unless she's ugly.

The reason we live partly in the future is because we have to a) look after others we care about and b) attend to our own needs so we continue to exist somewhat comfortably. Only slavemasters (buddhist monks who rely on donations, people who suck off the public teet, religious gurus, the non-working 1%) have the luxury of "living in the present most of the time", let alone all of the time. Much of the best part of life is planning and anticipation, not vegetation.

At best he's offering a weak argument against anxiety.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
We are agents living the discovery of our mission.





PairTheBoard


Some agents are on such a fault finding mission they create faults to find, I have discovered.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
A classic problem, not the best analysis I've seen. Will try to formulate a better one.

Problem? Is it a vague problem?

Answers?

Death - Let The World Turn
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=-Plfbya_7yU

Or restate the problem.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Much of the best part of life is planning and anticipation, not vegetation.
Go ahead. Watch your plans unfold. Watch your life take shape in precisely the way you desire. Eliminate as much chance and spontaneity as you can. Get to a point where you're highly accomplished and happy with your accomplishments. And then....make more plans and continue working for the future. You'll best ensure the security of yourself and your loved ones in this way. And then you'll die and be born again. Like Sisyphus, you'll probably never stop rolling that boulder up the hill. One must imagine Sisyphus happy; condemned by the Gods to roll the boulder up the hill for all eternity.

Nonetheless, it's a very responsible and admirable way of life. Keep at it.

Last edited by VeeDDzz`; 08-04-2017 at 08:15 PM.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
08-04-2017 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Much of the best part of life is planning and anticipation, not vegetation.
What are we to do with the other 23 hours and 57 minutes of each day? Life isn't that hard to plan for.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote

      
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