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Umm, I'm not assuming you're wrong, I proved you wrong because I fully believed there was no hole under my foot before I stepped in it. Therefore, my belief had no effect on reality. If what you claim is true, my belief the ground was solid would have prevented the hole from being there. Unfortunately for my ankle, you and I were both wrong.

I liked this and thx for re explaining..I could deal with it in other ways, like saying you believe this happened so it did...or you believe it proves me wrong so it does....but I think we can sort of tie here with this:


The hole and your belief in it happen at the same time.....??? If we agree on that, it doesn't prove I'm right but it continues to not be able to prove it wrong?

If it helps to add to FoldnDark's argument (i.e. I want to show that "his argument applies to more people than just himself"), I fell through a skylight in the summer because I genuinely didn't think I would fall through. But before then I didn't know what a skylight was, which is kind of interesting. I guess it is a basic example that just because you believe something won't happen, that doesn't make it false.

Maybe, but I would counter that my belief actually came a few seconds later. First there was disbelief, then the tripping part, the pain, the falling, and somewhere around faceplant came the belief.

I guess if we were powerful enough to ignore our senses and believe in a reality that disobeyed physical laws as we have come to understand them, we could all live out our dream lives to their fullest while probably actually inhabiting padded cells. Maybe that's where I am right now, but I doubt it cause my life is not very spectacular.

no but if you then believe it didn't happen then it didn't.

I think we could say the pain made you believe there was a hole so there was one. I'm pretty sure you can just get quantum with it all, another way to say it is all that is just your belief of what happened because you see your injured ankle now. If you didn't believe that ankle was hurt you might see there was no hole etc. Millions of ways to look at it.


This is more what I'm suggesting and I think its obvious and quite important.

limiting belief right?

So do you mean "what you believe actually comes true IRL", in the same sense that "wishes come true"?

Also, what reasons would I have that it didn't happen? The only ones I can think of are

a) I am delusional
b) My beliefs are arbitrary (randomly chosen) and meaningless (to myself), i.e. I don't care about anything IRL.
c) I have the belief that what happens irl isn't what happens irl, i.e. I believe that what I experience is not the absolute truth/absolute reality.

Maybe they are more. But all these things seem either ridiculous and/or meaningless (which doesn't make them incorrect however).

I don't think I'm saying its true in the same sense as wishes, maybe. But you could certainly change the future or the past with belief (if this were correct or valid).

I got a little lost but I think it could be any...but b) becomes interesting once we accept the 'law' as valid. Because then you are not able to separate whether or not something is arbitrary because that's a belief.

testimony should not be evidence, and yet it is allowed to be in most courts most of the time.

also, how does this thread even exist on 2p2 (even though it is an interesting topic)? Let's put this into poker terms. If I possessed the winning hand every time I believed I did....

Okay, well anyway, I think you should elaborate on the OP. Say what you want to say, and then we can start from there. You're not making a consistent point here...

When we take the premise or law I gave "what ever you believe to be truth is true for as long as you believe it to be" ...there can be no refuting proof because as soon as you say 'aha! you are wrong' you become correct that the law is wrong.

But do you 'believe' you had the best hand. At some point your belief you had the best hand changed, then everything changed...had you have never of let go of the belief you had the best hand...you would still have had the best hand.

People keep using cause and effect as proof, but if this statement were true first then time is just a belief.

I believe this thread is awful.

You should elaborate what you mean by this. Say precisely what you mean. Otherwise you can easily run circles round us due to abuse of language, which I think you are doing so far (but is not at all useful or meaningful).

But the statement as it is, I reject having any meaning whatsoever.

Your statement is profound and so the burden of persuasion (making a point) is on you (as is normally the case).