SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread - Page 41

lastcardcharlie · 04-19-2011, 02:39 PM

This is linked in the OOT grammar thread somewhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht2ZAxMqlIk

All-In Flynn · 04-19-2011, 03:26 PM

Well, Stephen Fry's good enough for me. Cheers.

wisski · 04-19-2011, 04:05 PM

doesn't none = not any? I get what you're trying to say, but really none is a plural negative imo.

because when using it you exclude all subjects... so I'd have to disagree

All-In Flynn · 04-19-2011, 04:30 PM

Did some googling - it's complicated. Long story short 'none is' is correct in many cases where 'none are' ends up being used, but 'none' is not universally singular, at least in usage. One example offered is the '... and then there were none' ending of (I think) Nine Little Indians. I'm not sure that's even right, but it sounds better than '... and then there was none' - that would work for an amount of a substance, but not for an amount of individual units.

madnak · 04-19-2011, 05:30 PM

Clearly either is fine, unless we're talking about something like "none of the cake was left."

If you say "none of the cake were left" you're a retard.

jb9 · 04-19-2011, 07:01 PM

But it is cool if you say "if none of the cake were left"...

madnak · 04-19-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb9

But it is cool if you say "if none of the cake were left"...

Also "if not one elephant were left..."

All-In Flynn · 04-19-2011, 07:43 PM

"If I weren't such a nit..."

chezlaw · 04-19-2011, 07:49 PM

if not one grammatical error were left ...

All-In Flynn · 04-19-2011, 07:50 PM

...they'd all be right.

derada4 · 04-21-2011, 05:55 PM

On the whole grammar discussion:

The word we should be looking at isn't "none," it's "them".

Think about it: "None" of what? "Them" = are.
"The cake" = is.

"The cake," "Them," etc is the noun that the verb is modifying, so what "none" means doesn't really matter in this case.

madnak · 04-21-2011, 06:26 PM

The moving company is going to handle that on Monday.

"Not one of them is" sounds fine to me.

derada4 · 04-21-2011, 07:27 PM

Yeah I realized I completed f'ed that one up, wasn't drunk but might as well have been.

I think the problem with the original post was the assumption that "none" = "not one", when "none" really means something more like "not any." Since "none of the cake was left" doesn't mean "not one of the cake was left," but again, something more like (but not exactly) "not any of the cake was left" But I see that this was all pointed out already

All-In Flynn · 04-21-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derada4

I think the problem with the original post was the assumption that "none" = "not one", when "none" really means something more like "not any." Since "none of the cake was left" doesn't mean "not one of the cake was left," but again, something more like (but not exactly) "not any of the cake was left" But I see that this was all pointed out already

I assumed it exclusively meant 'not one', but apparently it means both. Live and learn. 'Not any of them' is an ugly construction I'd never use, though. Much of my grammar sense is aesthetic, it seems.

derada4 · 04-21-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-In Flynn

I assumed it exclusively meant 'not one', but apparently it means both. Live and learn. 'Not any of them' is an ugly construction I'd never use, though. Much of my grammar sense is aesthetic, it seems.

Pretty much the same for me. I have an English degree, and read and write a ton, but know almost nothing about formal grammar. Most of the time if you just think logically about it, as was done ITT, you can figure it out. I come from a heavy musical background and know that some of the best musicians know nothing about music theory and feel that the same applies for writing/grammar.