I suspect the idea of people being "puppets" is an inaccurate concept. People have a lot of innate gifts that can be developed one way or the other depending on the motivation and that is not puppetry that's human development.

So God doesn't really control our opportunities is what you are saying?

I don't have a fully formed opinion on this question so its hard for me to say one way or the other definitely.

I just don't think being a puppet is the only option. But the way our minds draw conclusions might make it seem like it is the only option.

Plus ça change...

There is a really great movie that explores this...called Mr. Nobody.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485947/

It takes the approach that the decisions we are faced with are so hard because time is forward moving and we are stuck with that particluar design for our life. This is based on having infinite predetermined designs for our lives. I couldn't conclude whether each design/choice/line was correct or equally as meaningful as any other design assigned to the character. It seemed that the character was most happiest in the design where he just went with the flow and not trying his hardest to direct it himself.

This is a meaningless sentence. If the range of possibilities is infinite, then by definition it cannot be pre designed.

True. I articulated it wrong. I meant it to represent a ridiculously high number that could be incomprehensible to us. The film just shows like 9 to 12 different designs based on a few choices as well as the outside choices of the people around him.

Going with the flow could be the happiest. I don't know for sure about that but I see no reason to object to it.

But what if in addition to going with the flow you needed to learn self control to avoid mishaps while you are going with the flow? Didn't AA help you with that? Isn't that why you went there for 10 years?

Yes, but is the happier life more meaningful than any other type of life path. Say I die as a miserable gutter drunk, wouldn't my life have the same meaning as if I was married, had 12 children, and became a billionaire philanthropist?

As for the AA, it leans more toward giving up self control, the surrender being the first step of course. An alcoholic is a control freak as it is, it's not until the first drink or sip takes place that loss of self control occurs. So if by self control, you mean discipline, then yes, it certainly helps with that.

I don't know that the happier life is the more meaningful.

But there's objective meaning and there is subjective meaning to one's existence so there is more than one type of meaning.

But I doubt an alcoholic could be considered a control freak. A control freak is someone who controls other people. A reformed alcoholic is someone who has gained control of himself and just how much control he needs to be successful is going to vary by individual. Imo freedom results from self control because you're no longer being controlled by alcohol and you can go out and try new things in life. An alcoholic's life is more circumscribed. He has to always be putting money aside for alcohol and going to places where he can avail himself of it. The amount of damage will depend on the degree of addiction. So freedom from further damage is achieved by self control.

For my crptyography class

Playfair ciphers are fun



And if you like wasting a good few hours cause cracking codes is fun and all(not really)..cipher text:

Cz (clyhabidyq Taa, e bkatbvyws iat Wzhkruevy) vu z gyk urlzei rfcgoc
uzqxngyq yksylmyqece vzl rgo Ylcacr bplara dytkal tyhczqc. Vc vd uzuyq yh y wag
nfin zv clvxvcvma, gnvtn ga ryqep Letcxhk Ruurzd. Vc erbz qdzq mocmabb zbval
ynzek ztax faric colzb zi pfcgopu, yitpqbyih xrumyqta ltborvykd yws
calawrocvyhd. Fk davz qygqz, bvfd qydfkh fd z wyib ym z gyh rzcz am ptbat
artnyia, gnvtn fd ksylmyqece qydfkhyq nmbv ztalorvykd bvor ruo xalo zifivdyygc vk
dzvrhruo. Lgo ertegab drlzef ufyy xd $2^{64}$ uoczq yi zetn bplara (at $2^{40}$
yi bvz qarqeqlt maldfyh Cz6). Bvz qylwuvcc drevxb zv pgo dytkal ruo lwoc hz hzo
latyxoca orropnd pyw qo lzpmatxau nvcn tavcplevcz darqeqll rwoh cwob tx
zvgrwbpvmz qzeltw, oin nybpyiwqfdnvhk orropnu zla erbz vxclyrcvryr gvcw o
dfxvrel tavcplevco. Cgo ksleyq zv bvy lfcgoc md ffrlaqfdfxoce mzbp, zu vc fd vala
bvyw 2.5 cvxak zzulol rwow CT4 yw y Lzhcmdx VVfM (nvcg tzqb pwoi 2.9 dcdqld/uoca
ggoi yfrqlxahcyq nmbv bvz ECF zv GYQfDFZ ein lobpyq nmbv bvy GZQDFZ qzvrhrul).g

I can tell you from experience that control issues are very prevalent in alcoholics, trust me. We always want to direct things/people our way, be the God, per se, and when it doesn't happen, which is almost always, we become frustrated. But that goes deeper into the psychology/emotional problems of the disease.

I love hearing non-alcoholics interpretations of what the solution is because it never ceases to amaze me how incomprehensible it is to you all how our brains work. Self control is a great idea from a logical sense. In reality, an alcoholic can stop drinking on his own will, we see it all the time. But it doesn't really change anything emotionally or psychologically. Of course it improves physically, hopefully that Mickey Mantle liver has enough time in between binges to restore itself. But an alcoholic will still be just as miserable, actually more now that they are seeing life through sober eyes, than before when they "lacked" self control. So the answer is not self control, there are many things in the psyche that need repair. I should stop now, with the risk of already sounding too preachy.

Should also note that the playfair omits j.

Some are, some aren't; I don't know how much of a correlation there is. Some make their problem everyone else's problem and some quietly get on with it.

You would concede that alcoholics can be very detrimental to those around them?

See...this why meetings exist, you guys just don't get it.
I already explained part of it is a control issue, you think it's some sort of sample size. Sit in on AA meeting and then tell me it's "some do this, some do that situation."

Show me 1 alcoholic that quietly gets on with it....

Well I know two personally that do IMO. I have also known or been closely related to others who are the biggest control freaks going. It would not surprise me if there were a strong correlation.

Regarding not getting it, I don't know what it's like to need another drink but am all too familiar with how you are prepared to get one.

Plenty do. The likelihood of spontaneous recovery is the same as the likelihood of recovery with support groups.

Yes I do see what you mean. The pleasure/mood centers of the brain are affected.

Still it is quite a coup if you can establish self control. Not that it is easy or anything.

Custer,

It's not a cipher to some other civ in the Local Group.

Just saying.

I meant more in the context of the inherent behavior. I would agree that there are many different paths of recovery. But even this is a moot point, because if you're recovered from alcohol, are you really recovered from all past behavior tendencies? No.

Ok, so I've controlled myself enough not to take that first drink. Now I'm itching, craving, going berserk, what do I do now that I've established self control?

diazepam 20mg every 3-4 hours until it stops itching

Sure. Old pathways, old habits to fall into.

any united/arsenal fans in here?

Personally, I'd pray on it and or maybe study up on fasting. Fasting has hidden power that the world usually overlooks.