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Old 05-19-2017, 10:33 AM   #101
BrianTheMick2
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
See, I didn't want this to devolve into petty personal attacks so I tried not to call out specific posters, but TS baited me into it. I shouldn't have indulged him.

But it's a fair question you asked earlier as to what should be done, and I don't have a good solution. Zeno can't control who comes in, can't make them talk about science or math. Then again, the other subforum's manage to be mostly on-topic. Politics is a cesspit full of morons, but at least people there are mostly talking about politics. Same with BFI, HF, etc. SMP uniquely seems to be guys posting gibberish and music videos at each other.
This isn't our fault. Scientists don't seem to be getting much accomplished nowadays, math is really boring and philosophy is pretty much people repeating the same old gibberish over and over.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:45 PM   #102
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

My working hypothesis is that TS is a sophisticated internet Troll hired by Putin to undermine American Democracy, sow discord, dissemble, and lambast science; thus weakening the pillars of civil discourse and bring the government to its knees for ultimate take over by a cadre of Russian oligarchs. Notice how in bed he is with Trump.

That he would choose a dilapidated poker site already reeling, and in a forum within it of the lowest traffic (and getting less and less by the day) is a bit of a mystery, but the nefarious are ever eager to exploit and drive a wedge and their sinister plots run deep. Today SMP - Tomorrow Fox News - Next week the BBC. We all know where this leads. It is wise of me to keep him around. Eventually the mask will slip. And that will be that - off to the reeducation camp for him and no more Beer!
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:09 PM   #103
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

It would be quite funny if TS's secret goal were the BBC.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:36 PM   #104
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

To fuel the question theme of this thread----

Another interesting question is whether known (or covert) Racists should be sterilized. Progeny from racist couples have a marked propensity to pass on the same belief system(s), whether it is racism or religious and political affiliation, or other normative beliefs and traits. This horrid fact has extensive evidence from a myriad of studies available to all. To preclude the further societal annoyance and disruption and hatred inherent in Racism, that harms so many victims, a forced sterilization program should be administered by the government. This is a first, but absolutely necessary step to take, to fight this insidious menace for the well ordering and fair functioning of society. That a few must make a slight life adjustment and sacrifice for the benefit of all is hardly asking too much - Especially since they are passing on evil and wrongheaded beliefs to the innocent.

The program should start with young couples at a pre-marital screening and testing. This can ferret out those that have the wrong belief system(s) to have children (we start with racism first, other wrongheaded beliefs can be added on later). Voluntary inducements for sterilization, such as tax credits and lower interest government loans for homes or preference for government jobs, can be part and parcel to the program. This form of social engineering has other secondary benefits as well. I leave it to reader to figure them out. A forced reeducation policy probably will not work to preclude sterilization. The recidivism rate and/or the gaming of the system would be too pronounced and it is predicted that it will not work. Witness the dismal record of our current prison system to reeducate or otherwise turn criminals into productive citizens.

This is just a first off-the-cuff proposal; obliviously tweaks to the system and an iterative process will be needed to achieve the ultimate goal - The elimination, or at least a marked minimization, of the abhorrent nature of racism that seems inherent in human nature.

Last edited by Zeno; 05-19-2017 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #105
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

How about sterilizing the mentally ill? I once started a thread on mental illness, but Zeno nuked it on account of it attracting undesirables. No problem, but now that SMP traffic is dropping and all...
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:09 PM   #106
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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How about sterilizing the mentally ill? I once started a thread on mental illness, but Zeno nuked it on account of it attracting undesirables. No problem, but now that SMP traffic is dropping and all...
We got rid of the idea in the real world because it can be (and actually was) used as an excuse to sterilize politically undesirable people, and also as a reason for those with mental illness to not seek treatment.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:43 PM   #107
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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We got rid of the idea in the real world because it can be (and actually was) used as an excuse to sterilize politically undesirable people, and also as a reason for those with mental illness to not seek treatment.
Hell, might is right. WTF?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:24 PM   #108
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Sterilization has a bad stigma associated with it. This is probably too bad, used wisely and with due caution the upside is grand. But I won't elaborate.

I shouldn't have nuked your thread lastcard though I don't remember it. Anyway, I must have been in a rare fit of moral indignation, or wanting us to keep a low profile. People are listening and reading and taking notes you know. Our every post, every sentence, every word, the crossing of the T the dotting of the I, and our secret coded punctuation is being monitored for moral turpitude. Caution is warranted.

Last edited by Zeno; 05-19-2017 at 11:55 PM. Reason: I dotted an I and crossed a T.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:44 PM   #109
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Getting a vasectomy was one of the best decisions I have ever made, so there is that.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:46 PM   #110
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
See, I didn't want this to devolve into petty personal attacks so I tried not to call out specific posters, but TS baited me into it. I shouldn't have indulged him.

But it's a fair question you asked earlier as to what should be done, and I don't have a good solution. Zeno can't control who comes in, can't make them talk about science or math. Then again, the other subforum's manage to be mostly on-topic. Politics is a cesspit full of morons, but at least people there are mostly talking about politics. Same with BFI, HF, etc. SMP uniquely seems to be guys posting gibberish and music videos at each other.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this reads as if you're not around enough to be able to provide much constructive criticism. What you've outlined is a little vague and cliche. What does talking gibberish at each other mean? And how is it different to many of your posts in Politics? Also, all of this was preceded by an innacurate observation about alleged racists in this forum.

Sure you haven't had a bad week?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:55 PM   #111
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2 View Post
This isn't our fault. Scientists don't seem to be getting much accomplished nowadays, math is really boring and philosophy is pretty much people repeating the same old gibberish over and over.
Are you kidding bro? Breakfast scientists have only recently discovered such wonders as the espresso-infused bagel.



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Sure you haven't had a bad week?
Very good, actually.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:21 PM   #112
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Are you kidding bro? Breakfast scientists have only recently discovered such wonders as the espresso-infused bagel.

That is like bringing up how Hitler had a good idea with VW.

We do not bring up the abomination that is Einstein Bros in SMP. I reverse-engineered their lox and it is made out of (spoil due to being not quite safe for work or sensitive people)
Spoiler:
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:33 AM   #113
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

How tf did this devolve into such a warped eugenics discussion? I don't suppose the numerous human rights violations would be an interesting talking point?
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:44 AM   #114
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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How tf did this devolve into such a warped eugenics discussion? I don't suppose the numerous human rights violations would be an interesting talking point?
Reduction to absurdity. Your thread title was absurd enough to anyone with even a modicum of education, but because we feel the need to slowly draw out the obvious conclusion for the idiots and uneducated we needed to reduce it to absurdity because of math and logic and because it is fun to make fun of dumb ideas.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:52 AM   #115
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Reduction to absurdity. Your thread title was absurd enough to anyone with even a modicum of education, but because we feel the need to slowly draw out the obvious conclusion for the idiots and uneducated we needed to reduce it to absurdity because of math and logic and because it is fun to make fun of dumb ideas.
How tf is the thread title absurd? Do you know what a discussion forum is?
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:02 AM   #116
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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How tf is the thread title absurd? Do you know what a discussion forum is?
It was reduced to absurdity. Through discussion. That is the nature of a discussion forum.

It did take far too long to get to the end-point, but the same can be said about teaching children how to ride a bike or read. You can't just jump to the inevitable end where they are spouting off quotes from Dr. Seuss.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:41 AM   #117
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

It just seems unfair to me. Why would we not give them money just because they don't take any drugs?
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:06 AM   #118
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Are wall street guys drug tested? NO the answer is NO , its called equality you just dont drug test because your poor. By the way its not like welfare benefits are used to buy drugs and if they are your not getting much of anything. One more thing drug addiction is a disease this is a proven medical fact.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:01 AM   #119
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Are wall street guys drug tested? NO the answer is NO , its called equality you just dont drug test because your poor. By the way its not like welfare benefits are used to buy drugs and if they are your not getting much of anything. One more thing drug addiction is a disease this is a proven medical fact.
That is an interesting claim, and one that i've heard many times. Can you cite the actual scientific studies that support your claim that it "is a proven medical fact"? Not news reports, or internet sites that like to paraphrase stuff. The actual medical studies.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:35 AM   #120
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Now we have only this thread left for the narrow minded.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:59 AM   #121
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

One of the (few) things I dislike about the modern world is the idea that something is a "disease". Sure, it is, partly. But so is being an ******* - that's a "disease" of habit and opportunity that lays down pathways in your brain that become hard to break - not unlike drug addiction.

In reality, drug addicts range from partially to fully responsible for their addiction. Before you became an addict, you could not have had that second drink. You could have recognized that your father or brother were alcoholics, and not partaken. You could have organized your life such that you weren't selfish or hedonist. You could have stopped and thought "hey, I really don't want to do this to my family/friends, I should walk this back before it gets serious". You could grown a sack and decided to man up and face life rather than ignore the pain in drugs/drink. Yes it's a burden, but we all have our burdens. There are many choices made on the way to it becoming a full blown "disease" from which it's very difficult to escape. The same often goes for other things, like suicide.

So this bull**** that "it's a disease" is pretty unsupportable imo. Some people more easily become addicts, no question. Just like some people more easily become *******s. If we're not judging drug addicts, then we shouldn't judge *******s either.

I do agree that once full blown addiction sets in, we should treat it as such. Addicts are often guilt-ridden cowards, so piling on the guilt isn't helpful. We should help them get better first, by incentives, such as giving them money for not taking drugs. Give them a choice. I think for a lot of people in addiction, keeping up the addiction is the right emotional choice for them (which is why harshness only makes it worse). Incentive-based programs, such as upping their welfare if they test clean, have a better chance of success. A good portion of the people staying addicted are making a rational choice to continue their addiction, when no choice-based incentive exists for them to stop. What kind of a weirdo would choose emotional, physical and mental pain for no reward? That's the situation we leave drug takers in when they get the same welfare as non drug takers.

Last edited by ToothSayer; 06-04-2017 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:18 PM   #122
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Originally Posted by plaaynde View Post
Now we have only this thread left for the narrow minded.
That is simply not true. All threads are for the narrow minded. That does not disavow the snarkiness of your comment - which I greatly enjoyed. Well done.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:20 PM   #123
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Now we have only this thread left for the narrow minded.
Not sure if you're referring to me, but i'm very open-minded about drug addiction. I am fine with treating it like a disease if that will help with the stigma and treatment. But i'm not entirely sure it IS a disease, and would like medical proof that was claimed by the poster i quoted.

To me, a disease is something that WILL affect you and you cannot choose to get rid of it via behaviors. If you have cancer, your behavioral choices are meaningless unless you directly treat the cancerous cells.

Even alcoholics have a choice at all times. It's not much a choice, granted, since the urge is often overwhelming for them. But they will not die from the disease if they do not drink. Real diseases don't seem to have that caveat.

Frankly, i think drug addiction is more about self-medication than anything else. That, in itself, is very sad and worth our efforts to help them.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:30 PM   #124
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

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Even alcoholics have a choice at all times. It's not much a choice, granted, since the urge is often overwhelming for them. But they will not die from the disease if they do not drink.
They might.

Quote:
The severity of withdrawal can vary from mild symptoms such as sleep disturbances and anxiety to severe and life-threatening symptoms such as delirium, hallucinations, and autonomic instability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoho...rawal_syndrome
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:49 PM   #125
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Re: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Come on. Delirium tremens afffect less than 1%, and can be avoiding simply by tapering down over two weeks, and come with obvious increasing warnings, which can be fixed simply by having a small amount of alcohol. No benzos needed.

Yeah, if you stop cold turkey after training your neurotransmitter receptors on 30 standard drinks a day for months, your system will receive a jolt for a few days. Even then it's very very rarely dangerous.

It's not all in the same class of what Pete is talking about.
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