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Old 05-12-2017, 11:41 AM   #176
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Re: Sex GTO

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So homosexuality shouldn't be classified as a disorder even though it is a disorder
It shouldn't be classified as a psychiatric disorder as a matter of social policy, given current treatments available and the religious bigotry toward homosexuality. The intervention right now is ineffective and worse than the disorder.

Whether you could properly call it a disorder is a separate issue. I've argued that objectively, it fits all the criteria and has all the same patterns as other disorders. If people would just admit the truth of this, there'd be nothing more to post. It's hilarious that you can't discuss this objectively because it's a social sacred cow.
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because that would lump it in with a lot of stuff that isn't a disorder but is classified as a disorder?
Not sure how you get that from my post. I was having a dig at how absurd and arbitrary the DSM/psychiatry is.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:48 AM   #177
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Re: Sex GTO

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So you admit that your colleagues from some decades ago were total morons, who did tremendous harm by classifying homosexuality as a forcibly treated disorder? Good.

So how do you know your colleagues today aren't morons as well when it comes to other things? Psychiatry and psychology are nearly all pseudoscience. Classification of disorders certainly is. Much disorder classification is build on naming as disorders what are considered socially undesirable behaviors and traits, in order to control such behavior.
Name a disorder that is only a socially undesirable behavior and trait.

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You think a homosexual who engages in frequent buttsex with another man isn't acting on their paraphilia-like urges???
For acting to qualify a person for a diagnosis, there must be a victim.

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We're strongly programmed to find sexually mature members of the opposite sex attractive. When that breaks down (finding non-sexually mature people attractive, finding fridges sexually attractive, finding members of the same sex sexually attractive), and you act on it, and it profoundly affects your life in a negative way, it's a disorder by any reasonable definition.
No, *some* of us are "programmed to" find sexually mature people of the opposite sex attractive.

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Right. And someone who doesn't **** other men doesn't get called homosexual. This is a silly point you're trying to make. Homosexuality is a disruptive paraphilia that profoundly alters the course of a person's life, leading to greater disease, far greater suicide, comorbidity with various other disorders, inability to participate in normal social customs, inability to enjoy typical opposite sex sexual activity, etc.
It isn't a silly point. And we've determined that homosexuality doesn't qualify as a paraphilia. It is the same as other sexual preferences that do not lead to pregnancy.

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Your complete denial that homosexuality meets many of the objective criteria for a disorder if ****ing hilarious, man. You have zero objectivity. Whether it should (as a matter of social policy) be classified as a disorder is another question. IMO it shouldn't, but then so shouldn't a lot of thing in the rapidly-growing-each-version DSM.
It has to meet all the necessary criteria for a disorder, or it isn't a disorder.

A bowl of salad is meets many of the objective criteria for being soup. That doesn't mean that a bowl of salad is soup.

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It's not a red herring. You're being disingenuous. Dogs don't form pair bonds, they hump and go. They're programmed to hump. They'll hump anything from legs to buttholes of other dogs. Comparing them to gays and saying "Look - there animals who hump anything too, so it must be 'normal'" is just hilarious man.
It is definitely a red herring. Saying that dogs aren't human is just an extremely silly statement to make.

The argument is that this is intended to destroy is that homosexuality isn't natural. Of course it is natural. The genetics that cause it increase evolutionarily fitness, as has been mentioned quite a few times above.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:42 PM   #178
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Re: Sex GTO

btw,



(Official SMP Virtue Signal per Zeno)


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Old 05-12-2017, 06:51 PM   #179
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Re: Sex GTO

There isn't enough social pressure to suppress any same sex attraction a person might have. Let's institutionalize it.


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Old 05-12-2017, 10:15 PM   #180
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Re: Sex GTO

Yeah this whole 'we're strongly programmed to find the opposite sex attractive' that toothsayer has parroted a bunch of times is pretty bad. Some number of humans and other animals are, and have been for a very long time, strongly programmed to find members of the same sex attractive.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:21 PM   #181
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Re: Sex GTO

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Yeah this whole 'we're strongly programmed to find the opposite sex attractive' that toothsayer has parroted a bunch of times is pretty bad.
Why do most people try to **** women and not their pets? For the same reason we walk around objects rather than into them - we're strongly programmed to do so, in multiple ways.

Some people liking to hump their pets, or dolls, or clumsy people who run into things, doesn't negate our programming. Or that large deviations from our core functional programming usually comes from dysfunction or poor function

That some people see things that aren't there (schizophrenia), doesn't mean that is "normal"/not dysfunctional. It is exactly dysfunction.
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Some number of humans and other animals are, and have been for a very long time, strongly programmed to find members of the same sex attractive.
Are the people who enjoy ****ing their pets, strongly programmed from birth to find pets sexually attractive? Or has something gone wrong in their brain, where they've drifted from normality? Is it an opportunistic/haphazard transfer of normal functions of sexual desire, which has become deviated?

I assume you speak up also on the rights of bestiality participants, since they're "strongly programmed to find pets sexually attractive"? I would hate it if you were a bestiphobe. A lot of people are.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:28 PM   #182
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Re: Sex GTO

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Why do most people try to **** women and not their pets? For the same reason we walk around objects rather than into them - we're strongly programmed to do so, in multiple ways.

Some people liking to hump their pets, or dolls, or clumsy people who run into things, doesn't negate our programming. Or that large deviations from our core functional programming usually comes from dysfunction or poor function

That some people see things that aren't there (schizophrenia), doesn't mean that is "normal"/not dysfunctional. It is exactly dysfunction.

Are the people who enjoy ****ing their pets, strongly programmed from birth to find pets sexually attractive? Or has something gone wrong in their brain, where they've drifted from normality? Is it an opportunistic/haphazard transfer of normal functions of sexual desire, which has become deviated?

I assume you speak up also on the rights of bestiality participants, since they're "strongly programmed to find pets sexually attractive"? I would hate it if you were a bestiphobe. A lot of people are.
Facing off against those who don't have a track record is pretty weak.
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:07 AM   #183
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Re: Sex GTO

It just occurred to me - could homosexuality be the proof that there is something like a soul? If the mind can act in a way opposing what the biological program dictates, regarding something so fundamental as procreation - doesn't that show that our mind is somehow independent of our body?

I was always skeptical regarding an afterlife, or the possibility of uploading our minds onto computers someday, but now I begin to wonder... Thanks gays, you've given me hope!
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:54 PM   #184
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Re: Sex GTO

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It just occurred to me - could homosexuality be the proof that there is something like a soul?
No. Homosexuality can be explained through natural forces. No need for the supernatural.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:31 PM   #185
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Re: Sex GTO

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No. Homosexuality can be explained through natural forces. No need for the supernatural.
I didn't intend to explain homosexuality, my point was that it might indicate that the mind is independent of the body. That, in turn, could open the way to the existence of a soul, but also to less spiritual things like mind cloud-upload.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:58 PM   #186
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Re: Sex GTO

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I didn't intend to explain homosexuality, my point was that it might indicate that the mind is independent of the body. That, in turn, could open the way to the existence of a soul, but also to less spiritual things like mind cloud-upload.
You mean like some sort of King Missile song?

I'm pretty sure damn near everything could open the way to the existence of a soul. I fried some eggs for breakfast this morning, therefore I might have a soul.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:23 PM   #187
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Re: Sex GTO

...because frying eggs proves that the mind is independent of the body?
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:35 PM   #188
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Re: Sex GTO

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...because frying eggs proves that the mind is independent of the body?
It proves it exactly the same amount as homosexuality does.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:57 PM   #189
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Re: Sex GTO

...well, if you think so...
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:04 PM   #190
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Re: Sex GTO

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...well, if you think so...
I'll share my reasoning after you share your reasoning on why homosexuality indicates that there is a soul.
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:25 PM   #191
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Re: Sex GTO

I already did. And it's "might indicate".
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:36 PM   #192
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Re: Sex GTO

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I already did. And it's "might indicate".
Yeah, except that we have already found out that (male) homosexuality is caused by genes that cause attraction to men. This indicates that homosexual men are acting perfectly in line with their biological "programming." Maybe it is possible that these genes also code for having a soul, which means that only the gay people have souls.

We have no indication that there are genes that cause one to want a fried egg instead of an omelet.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:01 PM   #193
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Re: Sex GTO

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It just occurred to me - could homosexuality be the proof that there is something like a soul? If the mind can act in a way opposing what the biological program dictates, regarding something so fundamental as procreation - doesn't that show that our mind is somehow independent of our body?

I was always skeptical regarding an afterlife, or the possibility of uploading our minds onto computers someday, but now I begin to wonder... Thanks gays, you've given me hope!
You have to include bestiality participants in your soul proof. Nonetheless, I enjoyed your post.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:02 PM   #194
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Re: Sex GTO

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Yeah, except that we have already found out that (male) homosexuality is caused by genes that cause attraction to men. This indicates that homosexual men are acting perfectly in line with their biological "programming." Maybe it is possible that these genes also code for having a soul, which means that only the gay people have souls.

We have no indication that there are genes that cause one to want a fried egg instead of an omelet.
OK I didn't know about those homosexuality genes. Source?
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:09 PM   #195
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Re: Sex GTO

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Yeah, except that we have already found out that (male) homosexuality is caused by genes that cause attraction to men.
lol dude, just lol. We've found out nothing of the sort. You're devolved to straight up lying now??

Homosexuality is like many other states and disorders: it has some evidence of potential genetic susceptibilities, and extremely strong evidence of environmental influences. Environmental effects are by far the strongest; the small concordance rates between identical twins - below 10% - proves that.

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This indicates that homosexual men are acting perfectly in line with their biological "programming." Maybe it is possible that these genes also code for having a soul, which means that only the gay people have souls.
OK, so you're flat out lying. Or else extremely ignorant of the research.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:10 PM   #196
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Re: Sex GTO

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OK I didn't know about those homosexuality genes. Source?
God did it.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:11 PM   #197
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Re: Sex GTO

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You have to include bestiality participants in your soul proof. Nonetheless, I enjoyed your post.
Except that homosexuality is far more widespread, and therefore a better indication.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:11 PM   #198
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Re: Sex GTO

Example of large scale twin research:
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In 2000 Bailey, Dunne and Martin studied a larger sample of 4,901 Australian twins but reported less than half the level of concordance.[6] They found 20% concordance in the male identical or MZ twins and 24% concordance for the female identical or MZ twins. Self reported zygosity, sexual attraction, fantasy and behaviours were assessed by questionnaire and zygosity was serologically checked when in doubt. Other researchers support biological causes for both men and women's sexual orientation.[7]

Bearman and Brückner (2002) criticized early studies concentrating on small, select samples[8] and non-representative selection of their subjects.[9] They studied 289 pairs of identical twins (monozygotic or from one fertilized egg) and 495 pairs of fraternal twins (dizygotic or from two fertilized eggs) and found concordance rates for same-sex attraction of only 7.7% for male identical twins and 5.3% for females, a pattern which they say "does not suggest genetic influence independent of social context."
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:14 PM   #199
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Re: Sex GTO

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Except that homosexuality is far more widespread, and therefore a better indication.
I believe this to be a false statement. Bestiality is hard to research, but what we do have indicates prevalence around the same rate as homosexuality. And a lot of that is lack of opportunity. People who live around animals have far higher rates of bestiality than homosexuality.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:18 PM   #200
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Re: Sex GTO

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I believe this to be a false statement. Bestiality is hard to research, but what we do have indicates prevalence around the same rate as homosexuality.
Source?
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