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Old 05-08-2017, 09:46 PM   #151
HUstylez
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Re: Sex GTO

the bottom line is you're still correlating the comorbidity to brain function and not considering how gays are treated and perceived within society, especially in certain regions and due to factors like religion.

I mean with the more progressive, accepting climate gays have now, I'd be super interested in seeing the gay suicide rate in young people 20 years down the road
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:59 AM   #152
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Re: Sex GTO

Tooth, you aren't understanding the true culprit. It is old people who are to blame:

http://www.villages-news.com/get-safe-sex-memo/
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:07 AM   #153
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Re: Sex GTO

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
Zero sexual interest though, because my brain functions as it's designed. In the same way, I'm not humping the TV or the dog or getting turned on by my toaster; a functional brain doesn't find those things sexually arousing.
I doubt that any genius ever, has had a normally functioning brain. Almost by requirement they fall outside the average and belong in the outliers. Everything comes at some trade-off. What special advantages or utility do you ascribe to having a normally functioning brain? And are normally functioning brains in demand, within the free marketplace of ideas?
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:09 AM   #154
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Re: Sex GTO

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Originally Posted by HUstylez View Post
the bottom line is you're still correlating the comorbidity to brain function and not considering how gays are treated and perceived within society, especially in certain regions and due to factors like religion.

I mean with the more progressive, accepting climate gays have now, I'd be super interested in seeing the gay suicide rate in young people 20 years down the road
As LGBT becomes more mainstream it is extremely likely that the troubles of counter-cultural (outgroup) effects will either go away or become highly mitigated. A friend of mine recently complained half-heartedly that it is a good trade off that there aren't any decent lesbian bars around anymore.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:18 AM   #155
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Re: Sex GTO

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I doubt that any genius ever, has had a normally functioning brain. Almost by requirement they fall outside the average and belong in the outliers. Everything comes at some trade-off. What special advantages or utility do you ascribe to having a normally functioning brain? And are normally functioning brains in demand, within the free marketplace of ideas?
How Tooth thinks the rest of the world behaves when he is missing out:



Honestly, I don't understand why his ancestors were sent to Australia. He clearly belonged on the Mayflower.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:07 PM   #156
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Re: Sex GTO

I skimmed through this thread a bit, as it was linked in ATF. At some point it occurred to me: If the entire human population, now and in the past, was straight - wouldn't that be weird?

Imagine you meet some aliens, and you talk, and at some point the topic shifts to homosexuality. They tell you that homosexuality doesn't exist in their world, and never has. Wouldn't you find that odd? I would think that there's something fishy, like they're robots or something.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:32 PM   #157
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Re: Sex GTO

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Originally Posted by Morphismus View Post
I skimmed through this thread a bit, as it was linked in ATF.
It's weird that people get so butthurt about an open philosophical discussion about an important public policy issue. The anti-gay bigots used to shut down debate on whether homosexuality should be called normal, now the pro-gay bigots want to shut down debate on whether homosexuality should be called normal. Amusing bedfellows.
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At some point it occurred to me: If the entire human population, now and in the past, was straight - wouldn't that be weird?

Imagine you meet some aliens, and you talk, and at some point the topic shifts to homosexuality. They tell you that homosexuality doesn't exist in their world, and never has. Wouldn't you find that odd? I would think that there's something fishy, like they're robots or something.
I think it's within the range of expected. There's no reason to think alien sexuality would necessarily be as fluid as ours. Or that it wouldn't be more fluid and they don't think it weird that we don't copulate with our mothers, sisters, uncle and brothers (and pets, and inanimate objects).

Anyway, the trouble with your point is that you could use the same argument for paraphilias, schizophrenia, pedophilia, down syndrome, all kinds of disorders. Wouldn't it be "weird" if they didn't exist? Sure, but only because you're used to them.

I'm open to that argument - the extreme individualist view that the things we classify as "disorders" are merely attempts by the majority to enforce a social norm and maintain order - but it's a low bow to draw and there's an army of psychiatrists who'd disagree.

Last edited by ToothSayer; 05-09-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:29 PM   #158
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Re: Sex GTO

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Anyway, the trouble with your point is that you could use the same argument for paraphilias, schizophrenia, pedophilia, down syndrome, all kinds of disorders. Wouldn't it be "weird" if they didn't exist?
A little, but not as much.

edit: except down syndrome. That could have something to do with the alien's genetics.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:39 AM   #159
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Re: Sex GTO

Everything is dictated by physics, all behavior is dictated by genetics, there is no such thing as mental illness there is only negative undesireable memories and slow cognitive processing aka retardation, psychiatry is incoherent nonsense and always has been, the mind is entirely physical- made of neuronal transistors and photons, all disorders are physical

There is no such thing as gender fluid or sexually fluid, only two opposite gen-ders can exist and sex is when opposite gen-itals combine, all else is disorder caused by disability

Homosexuality is a natural reaction to having weak or incompatible genes, we should accept homosexuals as sexually disabled human beings but we need to discourage them procreating and spreading their dysfunctional genes the same way we discourage other disabled people from procreating

Last edited by HardPoker; 05-10-2017 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:38 AM   #160
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Re: Sex GTO

^ your thoughts on autism?
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:10 AM   #161
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Re: Sex GTO

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Homosexuality is a natural reaction to having weak or incompatible genes
This is probably the most baseless statement I've ever heard. Until scientific evidence finds distinct genetic differences resulting in homosexuality, statements like this are purely hate speech
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:01 PM   #162
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Re: Sex GTO

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Homosexuality is a natural reaction to having weak or incompatible genes, we should accept homosexuals as sexually disabled human beings but we need to discourage them procreating and spreading their dysfunctional genes the same way we discourage other disabled people from procreating
This kind of talk makes me want to encourage homosexual procreation for no special reason but to annoy you further.

Who knows, you may in fact be completely oblivious to the effect (on listeners/readers) of focusing on "weak" or "incompatible" genes.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:39 PM   #163
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Re: Sex GTO

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This kind of talk makes me want to encourage homosexual procreation for no special reason but to annoy you further.

Who knows, you may in fact be completely oblivious to the effect (on listeners/readers) of focusing on "weak" or "incompatible" genes.
Not everyone is knee deep in rhetoric. He's just a guy sharing his ideas. If we all self consciously read from the same nutty left-wing playbook, you'd never learn a damn thing about how other people think and why.

Why does some poorly expressed kook idea get you so determined to encourage the opposite? What sense of justice in you cares about that, but not things like Muslim immigrants' widespread misogynist attitudes toward women, which actually affect real people in very bad ways?

This sheepishness is getting old, imo. Being a sponge's for your culture's current bigotries and prejudices without any tempering of those prejudices is precisely how we got to gay persecution in the first place.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #164
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Re: Sex GTO

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What sense of justice in you cares about that, but not things like Muslim immigrants' widespread misogynist attitudes toward women, which actually affect real people in very bad ways?
It's a matter of focus, not facts. Homosexuality, relative to larger problems in the world, is a non-issue. How Muslims choose to conduct themselves here or abroad is a non-issue relative to for example - the U.S. military industrial complex or the slavery-motivated prison system or the blind decline into a world without privacy.

If you want to focus on all the non-issues in the world, like politicians do (it's their job/they're incentivised to), no one is stopping you. This doesn't mean others won't or shouldn't judge.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:41 AM   #165
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Re: Sex GTO

The energy humans have inherited is way too challenging to claim theres any correct way to use it, people should have sex however fits and take any joy they can out of life
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:53 AM   #166
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Re: Sex GTO

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He's just a guy sharing his ideas.
He is just a guy randomly throwing out claims that don't pass any sort of sniff test.

I'm not a geneticist, but doing so must be a reaction to having weak or incompatible genes. I don't think we really need to discourage him from procreating, since that seems to be a highly unlikely occurrence..
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:17 AM   #167
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Re: Sex GTO

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He is just a guy randomly throwing out claims that don't pass any sort of sniff test.
The gay lobby does that all time and no one blinks an eye. Example: "No one chooses to be gay, you're born with it" is a false meme (in the absolute) that's widely claimed and you even get shouted down if you disagree.

"Gender is just a social construct" is another one.

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I'm not a geneticist, but doing so must be a reaction to having weak or incompatible genes. I don't think we really need to discourage him from procreating, since that seems to be a highly unlikely occurrence..
And now you're randomly throwing out claims that don't pass any kind of sniff test. Even including Mexican immigrant Democrats, who breed like rabbits, Republicans procreate a lot more than liberals:
Quote:
Take a randomly selected sample of 100 liberal adults and 100 conservative adults. According to an analysis of the 2004 General Social Survey -- a bible of data for social scientists -- the liberals would have had 147 kids, while the conservatives would have had 208. That's a fertility gap of 41 percent. Even adjusting for other variables like age and income, there is a gap of 19 percent.
Another example: Muslims are far more vilely bigoted than OP is, and hold even more ridiculous views. They're breeding like rabbits, far outstripping Christians and atheists.

Physician, Brain, heal thyself.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:41 AM   #168
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Re: Sex GTO

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The gay lobby does that all time and no one blinks an eye. Example: "No one chooses to be gay, you're born with it" is a false meme (in the absolute) that's widely claimed and you even get shouted down if you disagree.

"Gender is just a social construct" is another one.
Any statement that includes "is just" tends to be an overstatement. However, there are pretty big differences between cultures on sexuality and gender, so it points in the general direction of where the evidence points.

I am pretty sure that "no one actually chooses to be gay" is fairly close to the truth. I certainly didn't have to choose to be straight, and I know many gay men who tried really hard to "choose" to be straight.

Quote:
And now you're randomly throwing out claims that don't pass any kind of sniff test. Even including Mexican immigrant Democrats, who breed like rabbits, Republicans procreate a lot more than liberals:
Religious folk tend to procreate a lot. Religiosity and conservatism are strongly linked. Not much to see there.

I wasn't pointing to what we can assume is some sort of social conservatism. I was pointing to the lack of coherence of thought. Most conservatives are at least coherent.

Quote:
Another example: Muslims are far more vilely bigoted than OP is, and hold even more ridiculous views. They're breeding like rabbits, far outstripping Christians and atheists.

Physician, Brain, heal thyself.
Religious people generally suck at being socially accepting of differences.
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:09 PM   #169
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Re: Sex GTO

shouldnt a disorder lead to natural decline...? in a lot of circles or societies gays are fine and live an indistinguishable life cycle compared to hetero-sexuals. ebola doesnt depend on where you at, atleast not to the point that it doesnt effect you at all

also I beg to differ that animals with quote on quote gay tendencies have a disorder too .. in dogs for example it has social purpose. basically every male dominant dog has a disorder then which makes it not a disorder but the norm
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Old 05-11-2017, 05:16 PM   #170
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Re: Sex GTO

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shouldnt a disorder lead to natural decline...?
Disorders tend to be stable at a small fraction of the population. Schizophrenia, bipolar, stuff like that affect a couple of percent, around the same percentage of gay peole.

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in a lot of circles or societies gays are fine and live an indistinguishable life cycle compared to hetero-sexuals.
So do pedophiles. Yet being attracted to 7 year olds is clearly a disorder; it's dysfunctional in terms of breeding and emotional connections and how a normal brain is designed to operate; normal brains aren't programmed to find 7 year olds attractive (normal brains look for signs of sexual maturity and find those attractive).
Quote:
also I beg to differ that animals with quote on quote gay tendencies have a disorder too .. in dogs for example it has social purpose. basically every male dominant dog has a disorder then which makes it not a disorder but the norm
Dogs hump everything - human legs, plants, buttholes if they can find them. It's instinctive behavior driven by hormones. They don't have human sexuality. The human analog is me humping randoms when I walk down the street - you would certainly find that to be disorderly.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:31 PM   #171
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Re: Sex GTO

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Disorders tend to be stable at a small fraction of the population. Schizophrenia, bipolar, stuff like that affect a couple of percent, around the same percentage of gay peole.
The reason why we don't consider it a disorder anymore is because if a gay person is depressed, we diagnose them as "depressed." We do the same thing with those who love bacon - we diagnose them as obese if they are obese, and don't diagnose them as having baconophilia.

We also don't diagnose observant Jews and Muslims as baconophobic, and don't consider them as non-obese if they are fat despite not eating bacon.

Quote:
So do pedophiles. Yet being attracted to 7 year olds is clearly a disorder; it's dysfunctional in terms of breeding and emotional connections and how a normal brain is designed to operate; normal brains aren't programmed to find 7 year olds attractive (normal brains look for signs of sexual maturity and find those attractive).
This point is a red herring. Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. Also, we don't even diagnose paraphilias anymore. We diagnose distress and/or acting on paraphilias. Someone who is attracted to prepubescent children, yet doesn't find this particularly distressful and who doesn't act (thereby causing victimization) on the attraction doesn't get a diagnosis.

It must be some sort of disorder if you use condoms or other birth control, right? Pretty horrible genetic disorder you must have if your phenotype has led you to not have at least 2 kids, obviously.

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Dogs hump everything - human legs, plants, buttholes if they can find them. It's instinctive behavior driven by hormones. They don't have human sexuality. The human analog is me humping randoms when I walk down the street - you would certainly find that to be disorderly.
Dogs don't have human sexuality, you say. Another red herring. Of course they don't have human anything. Dogs have dog breath, dog piss, and doggy eyes. Humans have human breath, human piss, and human eyes.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:03 AM   #172
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Re: Sex GTO

Aha so I see TruthSlayer is at it again with the, "Well before everybody believed in phrenology and now nobody does so that's like the same thing, right?"

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... The anti-gay bigots used to shut down debate on whether homosexuality should be called normal, now the pro-gay bigots want to shut down debate on whether homosexuality should be called normal. Amusing bedfellows.

...
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

And I know some small part of you knows it.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:11 AM   #173
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Re: Sex GTO

Some humans do have dog breath.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:41 AM   #174
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Re: Sex GTO

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The reason why we don't consider it a disorder anymore
So you admit that your colleagues from some decades ago were total morons, who did tremendous harm by classifying homosexuality as a forcibly treated disorder? Good.

So how do you know your colleagues today aren't morons as well when it comes to other things? Psychiatry and psychology are nearly all pseudoscience. Classification of disorders certainly is. Much disorder classification is build on naming as disorders what are considered socially undesirable behaviors and traits, in order to control such behavior.

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This point is a red herring. Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. Also, we don't even diagnose paraphilias anymore. We diagnose distress and/or acting on paraphilias.
You think a homosexual who engages in frequent buttsex with another man isn't acting on their paraphilia-like urges???

We're strongly programmed to find sexually mature members of the opposite sex attractive. When that breaks down (finding non-sexually mature people attractive, finding fridges sexually attractive, finding members of the same sex sexually attractive), and you act on it, and it profoundly affects your life in a negative way, it's a disorder by any reasonable definition.

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Someone who is attracted to prepubescent children, yet doesn't find this particularly distressful and who doesn't act (thereby causing victimization) on the attraction doesn't get a diagnosis.
Right. And someone who doesn't **** other men doesn't get called homosexual. This is a silly point you're trying to make. Homosexuality is a disruptive paraphilia that profoundly alters the course of a person's life, leading to greater disease, far greater suicide, comorbidity with various other disorders, inability to participate in normal social customs, inability to enjoy typical opposite sex sexual activity, etc.

Your complete denial that homosexuality meets many of the objective criteria for a disorder if ****ing hilarious, man. You have zero objectivity. Whether it should (as a matter of social policy) be classified as a disorder is another question. IMO it shouldn't, but then so shouldn't a lot of thing in the rapidly-growing-each-version DSM.

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It must be some sort of disorder if you use condoms or other birth control, right? Pretty horrible genetic disorder you must have if your phenotype has led you to not have at least 2 kids, obviously.
That's not the argument at all.
Quote:
Dogs don't have human sexuality, you say. Another red herring. Of course they don't have human anything. Dogs have dog breath, dog piss, and doggy eyes. Humans have human breath, human piss, and human eyes.
It's not a red herring. You're being disingenuous. Dogs don't form pair bonds, they hump and go. They're programmed to hump. They'll hump anything from legs to buttholes of other dogs. Comparing them to gays and saying "Look - there animals who hump anything too, so it must be 'normal'" is just hilarious man.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:26 AM   #175
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Re: Sex GTO

So homosexuality shouldn't be classified as a disorder even though it is a disorder because that would lump it in with a lot of stuff that isn't a disorder but is classified as a disorder?


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