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Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad

11-23-2014 , 02:24 AM
This was problem 6 (the hardest) at the recent National Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Contest.

In the Olympiad Contest. there are 6 problems, 3 per day. And each day the students have 4 hours and a half to solve them. So it was expected for the students (at least for the gold medals) to spend around 2 hours in this problem.

I was the author of this problem, what's your opinion about it?

--------

Problem #6 (OMM)


Find all positive integers n such that:

n + d = d^2

where d is the number of positive divisors of n.
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11-23-2014 , 05:48 PM
Looks good
Spoiler:
Without going into a ton of detail as is the best of course
n=2,n=56,n=132 looks like the only ones that fit , you need d= (1+(4n+1)^(1/2)/2

but for every n=p1^m1*p2^m2*...pk^mk

d= (1+m1)*(1+m2)*...*(1+mk)

Basically d^2 doesnt grow as fast as n does so above n=840 the expression d^2-d is always smaller than n and its game over for the search.

For d^2-d to remain close to n, d must be real large which is accomplished by n being a factor of many primes as small as possible and some power of 2 with exponent larger or equal to 1 since n=d*(d-1) = even. Testing those kinds products leads fast to the conclusion only n=2 works.

I mean you look for 2^k things then 2^k*3, 2^k*3*5, 2^k*3*5*7,2^k*3^2, 2^k*3^2*5.

higher primes than 7 cannot help eg 11,13 because they only contribute to d a multiplicative factor of 2 with each prime added which is not enough to keep pace with the resulting rise of n. Higher exponents of them are even worse as they go from factor 2 to say 3 but the product (ie n) rises by that prime (11+) and cant catch up as 3^2<11 etc...

Basically the number n that we must be looking for is of the form 2^k*3^m*5^s*7^r*11^where m,s,r<3, w<=1 and those can be inspected by hand fast enough.

Basically the argument goes like you cant have big rimes in n because their existence doesnt contribute as much to d as their big size requires forcing d^2< n essentially very fast as the primes get big. So by inspection one finds what works a lot faster than it would seem because n cannot have big primes as factors.

I may make this more rigorous if i get the time lol.


The crude argument would go that if a prime pk is introduced to power mk it must not be true that for large enough pk pk^mk>>(1+mk)^2 which quickly proves true if say pk>7 ie 11,13 etc basically for each power of 11 you get 2^2 vs 11 or (2*2)^2=16 vs 11*13 etc quickly leaving d^2 smaller than n as n grows. 2^s*p type things or 2^s*p*q for p,k big primes are eliminated for these reasons as d^2=(2*2*(s+1))^2 <<2^s*p*q etc if p,q larger primes

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-23-2014 at 06:13 PM.
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11-23-2014 , 05:56 PM
My opinion is that it is a **** of a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z
Spoiler:
n=2 looks like the only one that fits
Spoiler:
It works for n = 56.

I'm wondering whether looking for integers k such that k = (#factors of k)(#factors of k-1) is any help.
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11-23-2014 , 06:14 PM
Spoiler:
I corrected my first answer to only 2,56,132,1260 within time limits, just try my line of arguments the big primes are eliminated fast and can only exist there with big powers of 2 and small 3,5,7 etc ie 1260,132,56. I almost always when i have solutions correct myself fast enough in these problems by the way so i still pass the exam Charlie lol, because i never gave back my exam to the testers as anything other than the last guy. All these solutions fit my suggested form of solutions by the way ie small primes to progressively smaller powers with maybe 2 powers larger etc.

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-23-2014 at 06:25 PM.
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11-23-2014 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z
I corrected my first answer... within time limits...
The time limit was the time of my post. This is SMP, buddy.
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11-23-2014 , 06:38 PM
No the time limit is 2h from the time you started thinking about it and in principle if the other problems are easy it can even be 2.5-3 hours . I worked only for 45 min before posting with 1h15m time left still.

If this is SMP then consider yourself also corrected/supplemented BUDDY! And i am the last correction by the way. Furthermore all solutions have the form i suggested even the ones i missed on the quick first sieve.
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11-23-2014 , 06:46 PM
Taking a break to watch 49ers and will continue later for a more formal less sieve style approach, lol. (although in principle one needs to check only ~50 numbers and possibly even less as it ought to be impossible to have d^2>n if d>50 )

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-23-2014 at 06:52 PM.
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-23-2014 , 08:48 PM
I doodled through the 49'er game and came up with the same solutions as above, with sketchy number theory proofs that these are the only solutions.

While there is nothing the matter with insightful trial and error (breaking it down into a manageable set of cases to work through), I would have expected Olympiad questions to be amenable to more elegant treatments. Not that I am knocking my approach to the solution or this question specifically.

Here's hoping that there is an elegant solution to come.
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11-23-2014 , 09:11 PM
Spoiler:
Back from 49ers game. The sieve can be enhanced by also noticing that since n=d*(d-1) and d, d-1 have to be relatively prime then it must be true that;
div(n)=div(d*(d-1))=div(d)*div(d-1) so d=div(n) itself satisfies;

d=div(d)*div(d-1)

So if you check say 50 cases d from 2 to 50 you instantly eliminate cases that are prime numbers over 2 and cases that they dont satisfy d= div(d)*div(d-1) in general

For example if you had to check d=14=2*7 div(d)=4 and div (d-1=13)=2 so it fails before checking anything else.

This method quickly refines which ones you need to check thoroughly . So you do not need wasting too much time on the checking that is of course a less elegant proof but a proof nevertheless. All you need now is a convincing argument that d(n)^2<n for d(n)>50
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-23-2014 , 09:58 PM
Additional hint for anyone interested;

Spoiler:

Study the function (x+1)^2/p^x where p is any prime and establish what is the maximum of this function for each p.

This study will quickly tell you that if p is a prime factor of n then if p is 5 it cant have exponent over 2 if p is 7 cant have exponent of 1, if p is 11 cant have exponent over 1, if p is 13 cant have exponent over 1, and p cant be larger than 13. This quickly settles everything. Also 2 cant appear with exponent larger than 6, 3 larger than 4.
So you basically need to do this;

Check all numbers that have primes (factors) in small powers up to 13 ie 2,3,5,7,11,13 . Force exponent for 2 < 6 ,for 3<4 , for 5<3 for 7,11,13,17<2 also 2,3 appearing in high powers quickly removes all other primes so the checking needed is much less significant than one may think and doable within say 30 min after establishing this pattern and using also the prior test for d.

The highest one can get is for 2 to the 2 power , 3 to the 1st


Last edited by masque de Z; 11-23-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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11-23-2014 , 11:54 PM
Sirio11 what kind of computing equipment are students allowed to carry with them these days in the exam?
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-24-2014 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z
Sirio11 what kind of computing equipment are students allowed to carry with them these days in the exam?
Nada
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-24-2014 , 03:42 AM
Not even a basic calculator for doing numerical work with like 3^2/5^2 or 2^2/11 or 2^2/13 or 5^2/2^4 etc fast enough to draw conclusions (like how much below 1 this is vs some other similar expressions?

What are they afraid that someone will use some high tech cell phone to copy the problem, email it to friends outside and get answers? What kind of healthy ego megalomaniac self respecting genius, like we all are playing such games at any age, would tolerate this kind of self trashing to oblivion hall of shame behavior lol. Like hell i would ever allow myself to drop so low to do such a thing even if it gave me a gold medal. It would be enough for me to know what i did which should have nothing to do with awards won if not clean. Or maybe they are afraid one will load up mathematica and use some tricky sum of if conditions of DivisorSigma(0,k) functions combinations from 1 to 100000 to find out the answer real fast (that would introduce an unfair advantage over someone without it but then invite all to have the same exact computers). As if that in itself isnt a sign of reasonable IQ in the absence of full programming C editor lol. How does a real scientist eventually do it when nobody is watching? But then why would that same person go on and demand to find a clean way to do it eventually anyway. There is only one opponent in these competitions and it is always yourself in a better state. Thats how i always looked at it.


Still if you guys want to force people to be badasses without even trivial calculators i am up to it lol as i have been back then too. Its just gonna take faster by hand math to establish the table of the last post i did that solves it all safely and with immense confidence of how far the solution should go in primes. Its also an indication another solution exists but i dont care, i always liked the hard approaches lol. (plus it allows you to solve a general class of similar problems like say n=d^3 etc. (eg 21952=2^6*7^3 and (4*7)^3=21952))

PS: Would be also cool in an electronics allowed setup (or no conditions posed either) to make it also a test of character and record the entire exam and see who did something nasty. I can already see the proper emperor's club remake movie with math now lol. It would even become a class warfare where rich kids brought their supercomputers with them. But then the poor kid issues a challenge to the rich kid and the rich kid proves aristocratic enough like from another time to give up the edge or offer a share. Kind of like A Beautiful Mind meets The Great Gatsby to fight against Good Will Hunting in an Emperor's Club remake.

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-24-2014 at 03:56 AM.
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11-24-2014 , 04:16 AM
I doubt if the people who proposed this problem were looking for brute force solutions. And, in any case, brute force would not be especially easy without a calculator.

I was able to find four solutions fairly easily and fairly quickly just using elementary number theory without using a calculator. I convinced myself that these are the only solutions but I was not completely systematic about that part of the solution. As I said above, I would not be surprised at all if there is an elegant solution the proposers were looking for.
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11-24-2014 , 04:28 AM
Yes but some brute force are themselves systematic enough and beneficial/insightful in solving other similar problems that may not work with the "elegant" approach that may strongly depend on the particular Diophantine/divisor function equation structure. What if the brute force is only in the end requiring a couple of pages of tests even without calculator because one can introduce proper relationships to trim the search enough. I value that as solution the same way that i do the elegant proof. Harder problems eventually will require everything you have or many friends together have.

I submit this challenge for example. Try to solve the n=d^2-5*d+6, n=12,30,90 eg 90=2*3^2*5 and d= 2*3*2=12 , 12^2-5*12+6=90, i would like to know if the elegant solution gives that one too or you need now another elegant solution)
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11-25-2014 , 09:19 AM
I would expect the most challenging problem to be more difficult than this. Unless there is an elegant solution you are looking for that I have not found!
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11-26-2014 , 01:45 AM
Spoiler:
Consider how n grows compared to d^2. If we have n' = p*n, then d' = (i+1)/i * d, where n' is of the form p^i * a with a not dividable by p.

p < (i+1)/i if (p = 2 and i = 1,2) or if (p = 3 and i = 1), so only the "first two" 2s and the "first" 3 make d^2 grow faster than n. So n = 12 maximises the ratio d^2/n at 3.

We use this information to see that if n < d^2 there can be:
-no factors of 13 in n (13/4 > 3)
-at most one factor of 7 or 11 in n ( 7^2/9 > 3)
-at most 2 factors 5 in n (5^3/16 > 3)

Additionally there are:
-at most 3 factors of 3 (4*3^4 > 9*5^2)
-at most 6 factors of 2 (3*2^7 > 4*8^2)

So n = 2^a 3^b 5^c 7^d 11^e with a < 7, b < 4, c < 3, d,e < 2
So d = (a+1)(b+1)(c+1)(d+1)(e+1)

Now n = d(d-1). So n is even (which means a>0) and not a perfect square (which means at least one of a,b,c,d,e is odd). So d is even and d-1 is odd.

So d = 2^a * x, and (d-1) = 3^b 5^c 7^d 11^e / x

Stuck there
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11-26-2014 , 01:58 AM
Stumbled on this thread.. Wow this goes over my head so much, it's giving me some motivation to put some effort into learning/progressing in math for no apparent reason.
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11-26-2014 , 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai-
Spoiler:
Consider how n grows compared to d^2. If we have n' = p*n, then d' = (i+1)/i * d, where n' is of the form p^i * a with a not dividable by p.

p < (i+1)/i if (p = 2 and i = 1,2) or if (p = 3 and i = 1), so only the "first two" 2s and the "first" 3 make d^2 grow faster than n. So n = 12 maximises the ratio d^2/n at 3.

We use this information to see that if n < d^2 there can be:
-no factors of 13 in n (13/4 > 3)
-at most one factor of 7 or 11 in n ( 7^2/9 > 3)
-at most 2 factors 5 in n (5^3/16 > 3)

Additionally there are:
-at most 3 factors of 3 (4*3^4 > 9*5^2)
-at most 6 factors of 2 (3*2^7 > 4*8^2)

So n = 2^a 3^b 5^c 7^d 11^e with a < 7, b < 4, c < 3, d,e < 2
So d = (a+1)(b+1)(c+1)(d+1)(e+1)

Now n = d(d-1). So n is even (which means a>0) and not a perfect square (which means at least one of a,b,c,d,e is odd). So d is even and d-1 is odd.

So d = 2^a * x, and (d-1) = 3^b 5^c 7^d 11^e / x

Stuck there
Concentrate on d, a<7 will limit the primes in d, and with some clever work (to avoid finding specific cases for n), you'll limit the powers of these primes in d and find the answers
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-26-2014 , 10:01 AM
The final solution i had on Sunday but didnt post because the last hint i left made it obvious it would seem.

Spoiler:

In my last hint i gave the way to do it and a whole class of similar problems. I didnt present the entire proof though as it was obvious how it would go. But lets do it anyway. Now it may look like a brute force method but not really because you can trim it a lot by other properties.

We have n= d*(d-1) even. So 2 is a factor always to some power.

I gave that d= div(d)*div(d-1). That is very significant group of restrictions. Even for n as big as 10000 this forces to try less than 100 possible d values. But the property d= div(d)*div(d-1) for d>2 eliminates all primes from 3 to 100 and the as well as products of 2 primes only or 3 primes (for d not n) (we wills ee why later)

Then i suggested to look at the function (x+1)^2/p^x where p is a prime 2,3,5,7,11,13,17 etc

Here is a table of it that will prove useful because it helps examine what d^2/n does which is a bound condition for d^2-d=n. Ie if d^2<n for some n and higher there is no point in looking what d^2-d does, it can never be equal to n.

2----- 3----- 5----- 7----- 11------ 13------ 17-
1 2- 1.333333- 0.8- 0.571429- 0.363636- 0.307692- 0.235294
2 2.25- 1- 0.36- 0.183673- 0.07438- 0.053254- 0.031142
3 2- 0.592593- 0.128- 0.046647- 0.012021- 0.007283- 0.003257
4 1.5625-0.308642-0.04
5 1.125
6 0.765625
7 0.5



Now look what this table tells you right away. 13, 17 and higher cannot be factors of n because no combination with other primes to other powers can produce d^2/n>1, So only factors with 11,7,5,3,2 survive.


If 11 was a factor then this forces right away 5 or 7 to be impossible to be factors as well because then no power of 2 or 3 or both can recover the d^2/n>1. So 11 if factor can only be combined with 2 and 3 in powers. In fact it cant be 3^2 because then no power of 2 can recover the d^2/n over 1. So if 3 is a factor also then its 3^1 and then 2 has to be to the second power necessarily to barely make it all over 1.

So we have the only possible result involving all 2,3,11 and it is 2^2*3*11=132 which by the way is a solution because d(132)=3*2*2=12 and 12^2-12=132 as needed.

The point here though is that with 11 involved the largest number that could be true is 132. No higher multiples of 11 can exist.

That does it for 11 now and we can consider cases 11 is not involved.

Starting with 7 now we see that 7 cannot be in second power if there. Furthermore if its in the first power if 5 is also involved (only first power possible then) then this forces the maximum possible allowed number to be 2^2*3^2*5*7 =1260 (the others are smaller combinations). By the way 1260 is a solution also since d(1260)=3*3*2*2=36 and 36^2-36=1260.

The important thing established here is that the biggest number possible is 1260. No larger number can exist to make the products over 1 if 7 is involved. And if 7 is not involved then the 5 can be at most in second power needed then 2^2 and 3^1 (the result 300 is still smaller than 1260). Any other combination with 5^1 is still at most 3^3*2^2*5=540. Without 5 involved the maximum possible number is 2^3*3^3=216<1260.

The above essentially suggest that n is at most 1260 and d<1260^(1/2)<=35.

In fact the above discussion eliminates all of the n from 1260 to 540 as well so we need to check only from 540 and lower. which is for n<=23

Now that settles it fast.

since d= div(d)*div(d-1)

look how fast we crash everything.

23 fails,22=2*11 fails, 21=3*7 fails (ie div 21 is not 3 or 7), 20 fails because 20^2-20=380=19*5*2*2 that has d(380)=12 not 20, 19=1*19 fails, 18 also fails because 18^2-18=306=2*3^2*17 that has d(306)=12 and 12^2-12=132 not 306, 17 =1*17 fails, 16 would want n to be 240 and d*240)=d(2^4*3*5)=20 and so 20^2-20=380 not 240, 15 =3*5 fails (div 15 isnt 3 or 5), 14=2*7 also fails same reason, 13=1*13 same reason fails,12=3*2*2 doesnt fail the div12*div11=d=12 test and in fact 12^2-12=132 and div (132)=div(2^2*3*11)=3*2*2=12 so its a solution. d=11 fails, d=10=2*5 fails, d=9 =3*3 fails ,d=8 has 8^2-8=56 and d(56=7*2^3)=2*4=8 so n=56 is a solution, d=7 fails, d=6=2*3 fails, d=5 fails, d=4 fails, d=3 fails, d=2 passes as d(2)=2 and 2^2-2=2, 1 fails too.

That does it . We found n=2,56,132 and 1260 and nothing else can satisfy it as shown.

The fact is the above eliminations are not even necessary because the power analysis before took care of what are the possible combinations of powers 2,3,5,7,11 that make sense but because those were bounds (didnt take all possible branches i mean) i did the full thing to be sure knowing i had to look only sub d=24.

I of course still dont see this as very elegant but its not brute force in the real not practical sense either.


Last edited by masque de Z; 11-26-2014 at 10:20 AM.
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-26-2014 , 02:41 PM
I basically did what Banzai did and then considered the cases in turn. a=1 (easy to show that all the other exponents must be 0 in that case), a=2, etc.

Fairly straightforward to work through the cases using simple number theory as fixing "a" limits the other exponents via the n=d(d-1), d=(1+a)(1+b)(1+c)(1+d)(1+e), and prime factorization of n equations. No calculator needed.
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11-26-2014 , 05:23 PM
A fun little problem for sure.
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote
11-26-2014 , 10:41 PM
I'm so dumb...

Spoiler:
"So d = 2^a * x, and (d-1) = 3^b 5^c 7^d 11^e / x"

So I just noticed that the 'd-1' part means that the 3s, 5s etc can't be split up between d and d-1. That shouldn't have taken me that long haha. Think I'll get a nice looking solution soon.
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12-03-2014 , 03:19 PM
I notice that most of the people in this thread are focused on trying to solve the problem themselves, rather than answering the question that was actually asked.

My opinion of the problem is that it occupies an uncomfortable space between brute-force solutions and mathematical proof. For instance, I could try to find all solutions < 1000 and simply hope that there were no larger solutions without being sure. Although in general it is a pretty clever and interesting problem, it's questionable as a problem for a timed competition.





Quote:
Originally Posted by sirio11
This was problem 6 (the hardest) at the recent National Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Contest.

In the Olympiad Contest. there are 6 problems, 3 per day. And each day the students have 4 hours and a half to solve them. So it was expected for the students (at least for the gold medals) to spend around 2 hours in this problem.

I was the author of this problem, what's your opinion about it?

--------

Problem #6 (OMM)


Find all positive integers n such that:

n + d = d^2

where d is the number of positive divisors of n.
Problem from Mexican Mathematical Olympiad Quote

      
m