(Jeopardy is known for trivia)

(Direct reply: trivial )

[QUOTE=spanktehbadwookie;52491981]You have no evidence to back this claim and nor will you find any in encyclopedias
[/qoute]

Well it took some multiquoting.

Your interpretation of my answer to your question is not evidence of your claim.

Well that's perfect for you. You can hide behind art and interpretation your whole posting career.

Poetry is not part of reality? Can something be "out of reality"?
Even if a book like the bible (or any other book...) is 100% non-factual, doesn't it affect people?

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

I am skilled at exaggerations, however I have not granted myself any additional interpretation capability than I grant any other posters in the thread. So you're cool. I joke about trivia being trivial, which is fun. And is a sharable favorite considerations and experiences of having consciousness. Consciousness includes fun.

Suppose we can account for the whole encyclopedia right now. Within it will be the topic of consciousness and within that topic is...fun. What next?

I meant 100k years ago not 2.5k (ie Greece) or 5k (more ancient cultures) years ago. I was using the 2.5 or 5k as a way to compare to the 100k if one didnt want to try the present day human as example. Also back then the population was probably less than 100k-1mil often. They also say at some point we were less than 10k.


It is true in general that the harder life is (but not very insecure in terms of survival and endless war) and less the stupid noise distractions that bs modern day life introduces the better is for abstract thinking. I used to experience that every time there was an electric power loss (or a rare visit to the old mountain village setting) but now with smart phones that experience is over. Like imagine without TV and news cycles how much you can think about creatively to keep busy. I mean Newton/Leibniz developed calculus for example lol. Archimedes had endless brilliant examples of work and novel proof methods that since have been abandoned. Ancient Egyptians and ancient Athenians built amazing structures with creative engineering methods that have been lost in time giving all kinds of morons arguments for extraterrestrials lol...

But 100k years ago there was none of that and only survival was the game.

Basically i am arguing that a great deal of our appreciation of what consciousness is is civilization related/founded.

I'm not really so sold on this or the whole theory of the birth of civilization. The geometry needed to create the pyramids is far from trivial and the greeks ~calculated the size of the earth 3k years ago. There were vinegar acid battery lamps in the pyramids and basically any building older than these are little more than dust, either due to human destruction (often intentional for cultural reasons) or natures own course. I think it is more likely that there was a gradual build up over 100k years than even over the last 25k.

Stating that the greeks invented civilization and science is a view that has been heavily defended with little evidence in the west for going on 200+ years, because it basically very important to the white-ethnocentric worldview that things start there, for the purposes of 'western civilization' birthing culture as we understand it. See apotheosis of homer.

What do you mean? Civilization starts from 1 mil BC with fire etc but the real core important things that make one's consciousness a very rich experience are only possible in the last 100k years (speech for example is important) and near the end close to 10-20k years ago. There is prehistoric art going back a long time but this is just a few of the pieces and rare not a common place for all that lived back then.

Greeks gave us philosophy astronomy geometry proper logic in math etc. Those existed before in other areas but not as impressively celebrated. The entire Neolithic experience is really where it all came to be important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic

My point is the experience is vastly richer today so the way we perceived ourselves and world is substantially impacted by the last 10k years. I only claim the entire thing is emergent over long time periods and mostly recently. Our consciousness and awareness is tremendously unimpressive without our civilization. Just another smart ape big deal without culture. Go ahead and compare a modern human with some member of a neolithic tribe of the Amazon or Indian ocean islands in terms of what we call consciousness and overall self awareness. The depth of thinking in modern human is simply nowhere to be found in primitive cultures (now compare even these with their 100k years ago counterparts in paleolithic and you will see great difference there too). Yes they have skills but these are very practical things without serious depth in planning and imagination and horribly superstitious crap embraces everything. Math itself opens vastly the game. Modern exploration of space alone is making it even more monumentally powerful in thinking. It places our position in the world in the proper setting for only a very small fraction of all human history. We do live indeed is massively important times for our self awareness.

If you were born 200 years from your birth, took a time machine back in time 200 years at your age.. do you think that current day you could teach anything to future you?

I'd be sure bring-back a sports almanac.

Can you restate that with proper timeline description of what you are doing here? Who is visiting who and when? By the way there are no (and never will exist) time machines that take you back in time. You can however time travel to the future of other systems aging far less than them with respect to the time you originally left.

200 years is nothing in terms of what i am talking about. Yes in 200 years we will be even more impressive and have AI already but we can still speak the same language more or less ie science. Try that with 100k year ago person. Anyone can teach anyone something in all times. It just gets progressively more difficult to prove impressive to future versions. Ancient building methods and techniques would look impressive to many modern engineers but the reverse would be massively more impressive.

2217 you comes back and has tea, pizza, spacebeer or w/e with 2017 you. You are both your current age.

Both can impress each other in different ways but unless future version is a total moron immersed in endless pleasure and no education i (present version) stand to be impressed more than i can impress him.

A tribal person from neolithic can teach a lot of impressive things a modern human but the modern human will still have vastly superior intellect and self awareness. The more educated the better because there are some brutal morons out there but you know what i mean.

I don't mean to infer that atrocities of the past have not been bad, but this hypothesis kinda relies on a lack of large agrarian societies. There are atrocities now, so the whole rape and pillage is not isolated to just ancient humankind. Our societies have mechanisms not so far from slavery and slavery indeed still exists today. Countries still come and go. Yes some by conquer and even some go by genocide.

I don't think all timespans are created equal, and it will be just about impossible to go 100,000 years in the future and expect to *understand* via learning. Human brains are infinite, and we will far before then reach our current capacity for intelligence and understanding. The next 1000 years are going to be absolutely nothing like the last thousand years, except of course how humans interact with each other, trade, with each other, and war with each other.

I'd be doing this

I would say ancient man was certainly more spiritual, if for no other reason than they couldn't explain much that they could physically observe and interact with.

spank, I will simply ask what you are implying or saying in the future.

*finite, meant human brains are finite. There will come a point where it can go no further, perhaps even with impressive cyborg technology.