Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2017, 01:37 PM   #726
TomCowley
Pooh-Bah
 
TomCowley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,549
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
So because something doesn't have the claimed intended end result of the system, it's not an example of that system? Utopian philosophy X wasn't really an example of utopian philosophy X because the utopia promised never happened! Stalin wasn't a Marxist, then. Hell, Hitler wasn't a Nazi, because Nazi philosophy included the ultimate inevitable result of the Third Reich for eternity.
If you take the plantation system of the 1840s South, replace the plantation owners with party officials, and declare the government actually owns everything, you have a fairly decent description of the organization of early "communist" China right down to workers being stuck where they are for life. Then it got MORE capitalist and unequal.

At some point, when you make decision after decision that obviously and intentionally lead away from "the claimed intended end result", you can't expect people to believe that you're intending that end result anymore. But take it from a Nobel Laureate instead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Coase
A persisting feature of China’s market transition is the lack of political liberalization. This is not to say that the Chinese political system has stood still over the past 35 years. The Party has distanced itself from radical ideology; it is no longer communist except in name.

The combination of rapid economic liberalization and seemingly unchanged politics has led many to characterize China’s market economy as state-led, authoritarian capitalism
TomCowley is offline  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:41 PM   #727
FoldnDark
temp-banned
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,969
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2 View Post
He is facing charges. I see no "travesty of justice" here. In the UK, people don't have a right to be offensive. Same as here, but we care a lot about boobs being offensive for some reason.


You're just mad because you're a mick and he's a sweaty sock.
FoldnDark is offline  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:53 PM   #728
ToothSayer
Pooh-Bah
 
ToothSayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,098
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
If you take the plantation system of the 1840s South, replace the plantation owners with party officials, and declare the government actually owns everything, you have a fairly decent description of the organization of early "communist" China right down to workers being stuck where they are for life.
No, you don't at all. I missed the bit where slave owners purged millions of "reactionary rightists" and their families,and put them in torture gulags for reeducation and learning communist ideals. I missed the bit where central experts in the 1840s south planned every aspect of crop production for the entire nation. And that's just getting started.

You read too many books in which idiots posit analogies. What you posted is the kind of nonsense that people write when they read too many books in which idiots posit analogies.

Quote:
Then it got MORE capitalist and unequal.
No, it got more capitalist and richer from having a partially free market rather than a centrally planned one. The communist ideology and corruption remained unchanged, however.

Quote:
At some point, when you make decision after decision that obviously and intentionally lead away from "the claimed intended end result", you can't expect people to believe that you're intending that end result anymore. But take it from a Nobel Laureate instead
So because none of the hard-left communist states distributed the economic output equally, they were all actually right wing capitalists.

This is just gold man. I don't even know what to say. Congrats on trolling me, I guess?
ToothSayer is online now  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:37 PM   #729
TomCowley
Pooh-Bah
 
TomCowley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,549
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
No, you don't at all. I missed the bit where slave owners purged millions of "reactionary rightists" and their families,and put them in torture gulags for reeducation and learning communist ideals. I missed the bit where central experts in the 1840s south planned every aspect of crop production for the entire nation. And that's just getting started.
None of that is relevant- the workers are stuck there taking it in the ass while others profit from their labor. It doesn't matter if it's state directed or undirected. It doesn't matter if it was originally intended to be communist and just wound up an obvious spectacular failure at that quickly. If you take the basic left-wing communist/socialist ideal of worker/common ownership of means of production AND shared benefit of the surplus, or at the very least the latter, it simply never existed. At all. And post-Mao, there's overwhelming evidence that it's not the intended result. Why do you think it's the goal today?

Quote:
So because none of the hard-left communist states distributed the economic output equally, they were all actually right wing capitalists.

This is just gold man. I don't even know what to say. Congrats on trolling me, I guess?
There are more than 2 arrangements. Obviously Russia and China weren't capitalist to any meaningful degree 65 years ago. That doesn't mean they were communist or socialist, just centrally planned. Modern Nordic states match left-wing economic ideals far, far more in reality despite plenty of private enterprise going on. Their intent, clearly, is to distribute a lot of the surplus among everybody, and they do. China doesn't do that to any significant degree, and they aren't even trying to.
TomCowley is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:35 PM   #730
5ive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harvard, in a place like Africa
Posts: 6,763
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
So someone pledges allegiance to a movement that throws gays of buildings, treats women with horrific misogyny, has widespread institutionalized rape of children + slavery, has committed horrific terrorist attacks again innocent Westerners, and is in open warfare with the US and we should:

- Treat them like they're normal human beings
- Be sensitive to their feelings.
- Not criticize them because that would be racist
- Understand why they might feel hurt or alienated, and try to address our bigotries (i.e. make them the victim).
- Allow the hate preachers who spread this worldview to do what they like.
- Let heaps of people who think like the above into the country.

Somewhere between Clarke's extreme and the above (which is the view of the modern left) is sanity. People who hold the view above - which includes a good portion of the intelligence community - are far more dangerous to Western values and security and freedoms than Clarke is.

Take Europe. The above ideology has imported hundreds of thousands of vile, women-hating, outsider-hatiing, oppressive bigots, and their cultures, which has led to the needless spreading of death, terror and child rape and torture in Europe. It has also led to the necessity for intrusive, wide-ranging surveillance (the death and terror rates would be a least an order of magnitude higher otherwise), and with it, the political tolerance of such surveillance.

But you're getting upset about Clarke. In short, what the **** is wrong with your worldview?

And Zeno's right. Far weirder beasts than Clarke, with far more illiberal views, have held various offices. The US survived just fine. It's really only the modern age where we demand rigid adherence to a particular left-wing worldview - because the media and academia have both drifted pretty heavily left wing in recent decades, and the left is deeply bigoted, even totalitarian, toward viewpoints not their own. There's really no reason for requiring this worldview. Diversity in opinion is good, not bad. And diversity includes views you don't like or that you consider too harsh. That constitution and courts exist to reign in the excesses. An executive that isn't overreaching isn't doing its job properly.
WHO IS PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO ISIS WTF ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?
5ive is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:39 PM   #731
5ive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harvard, in a place like Africa
Posts: 6,763
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

I'm 98% sure a swarthy Mediterranean gentleman stole TruthSlayer's one and only GF away from him and the result was, well, all this.
5ive is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:41 PM   #732
5ive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harvard, in a place like Africa
Posts: 6,763
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
So i we don't bow to your worldview, you want to join a radical, violent, anti free speech, anti discussion, hate group?

Sounds like you belong with them

Let me put it this way. The Western world and all its wonderful tolerance and freedoms for minorities would not exist at all if our predecessors had followed the worldview that you and chezlaw and many others have. That should give you pause.
So you're saying chezlaw personally, specifically, actually, totally enabled Hitler?

I remember seeing a thread about that I think.
5ive is offline  
Old 05-30-2017, 12:07 AM   #733
5ive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harvard, in a place like Africa
Posts: 6,763
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Oh wait, nvm. He just did the thing where he posts a link that directly contradicts what his posts says, and that's all the TS I can take at this moment in time. See you guys in a few weeks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
Hey, if Muslims who rape 10 year olds at public pools* don't get jail time because of "cultural differences", then Manchester people making inappropriate Jew jokes should only get a few months jail time, owing to their cultural differences.

Welcome to Chezlaw's utopia.

*this is extremely common, sadly, such that many parents in Muslim parts of Europe don't let their kids go swimming any more because the rapes and attempted rapes by Muslim men are so common.

What a pathetic, miserable creature.
5ive is offline  
Old 05-30-2017, 04:37 AM   #734
ToothSayer
Pooh-Bah
 
ToothSayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,098
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive View Post
WHO IS PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO ISIS WTF ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?
You are really, really bad at following conversations. It's getting to the point of a cognitive deficit. Or do you just read my posts and no one else's?

The conversation was about Clarke comments that we should lock up Muslims - there are tens of thousands of them, more worldwide - who pledge allegiance to ISIS, as we've locked up many others over the years who pledge allegiance to violent and terrorist foreign powers.

Why the caps?
ToothSayer is online now  
Old 06-02-2017, 09:18 AM   #735
ToothSayer
Pooh-Bah
 
ToothSayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,098
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

It's wonderful to see science and reason triumph over pseudoscience and irrationality, with Trump cancelling the Paris agreements. A great day for science.

And a much needed turning point in dealing with global warming. Hopefully the start of dismantling Obama's reckless policies of signing up to agreements that increase global CO2 as much as possible and cause a great deal of environmental damage.
ToothSayer is online now  
Old 06-02-2017, 02:31 PM   #736
ToothSayer
Pooh-Bah
 
ToothSayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,098
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

30 minutes of unintentional comedy gold from the woman who held up the mock severed head of Trump, ISIS style.

ToothSayer is online now  
Old 06-02-2017, 06:02 PM   #737
PairTheBoard
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,200
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Maybe Kathy can recycle some old Bill Clinton jokes. Like, why is Donald hiding the dress he wore when giving oral sex to Vladimir Putin?


PairTheBoard
PairTheBoard is offline  
Old 06-02-2017, 06:42 PM   #738
PairTheBoard
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,200
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard View Post
Maybe Kathy can recycle some old Bill Clinton jokes. Like, why is Donald hiding the dress he wore when giving oral sex to Vladimir Putin?

After posting that I thought about adding a joke about maybe getting hacked because of it. I decided not to tempt fate. Funny thing, a few minutes later my computer went dark and dead! I thought I might have to carry it down to where I bought it. Fortunately, manually turning the power off and back on again restarted it ok. Knock on wood.


PairTheBoard
PairTheBoard is offline  
Old 06-02-2017, 08:01 PM   #739
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14,090
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

That Pittsburgh (the city that put out more steel during WWII than all the Axis powers combined) gave out a big FU on dropping out of the Paris Agreement thingamajig is pretty funny.
BrianTheMick2 is offline  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:52 PM   #740
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 14,838
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

Agreements made in Pairs are always suspect. There was that one in 1783 that caused some consternation. It took the Treaty of Ghent (in Belgium) to finally setting all the issues.

Only brain-dead benthonic organisms need take the Paris Agreement seriously. Pulling out of a dead whore is always a wise move.

God Bless Trump.
Zeno is offline  
Old 06-03-2017, 01:45 AM   #741
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 14,838
Re: The politarding thread of SMP, for really really really sorting things out

An Intermission of undetermined duration has been declared.







This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER . . . it is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be performing which could eventually lead to The Death Penalty (or affect your parent's credit rating). Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things . . . and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called MUSIC!

Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution (which, itself, is being modified in order to accommodate THE FUTURE)

I bring you now a special presentation to show what can happen to you if you choose a career in MUSIC . . . The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only . . . if you have to load or unload, go to the WHITE ZONE . . . you'll love it . . . it's a way of life
Zeno is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online