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Landing on a Comet: Watch Landing on a Comet: Watch

11-13-2014 , 05:33 PM
Current Status:
ESA have reported that the Philae Lander bounced twice on Comet 67P’s surface and came to rest around 1km from its intended landing site which is partially in shadow.
Next Event:

ESA predict that Philae will only be able to gather light for one hour and a half hours per twelve hour period which is less than the expected six. This will surely influence upcoming planned events as its batteries lose power.


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I wonder if they have a system that can charge itself over 3-4 days and then do a full day's work since this unfortunate development took place. Why cant they in principle simply extend the mission 4x the time and get the same results eventually only taking it longer time and working every 3-4 days heavily rather than every day. Still of course that looks like a 75% loss of the potential maximum value for a given time frame. But if it can charge at least it can in principle do all it wanted unless certain operations depend on getting done while light is available and cant last only 1.5 hours at a time.

"Day/Night" here is i guess 12h (rotation period of comet) so for the above divide by 2 for Earth values.

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-13-2014 at 05:42 PM.
Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
11-13-2014 , 06:02 PM
Here is the media briefing. It's an hour and ten minutes long.

They haven't found Philae with the Rosetta cameras yet.
Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
11-13-2014 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z
Why cant they in principle simply extend the mission 4x the time and get the same results eventually only taking it longer time and working every 3-4 days heavily rather than every day. Still of course that looks like a 75% loss of the potential maximum value for a given time frame. But if it can charge at least it can in principle do all it wanted unless certain operations depend on getting done while light is available and cant last only 1.5 hours at a time.
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I think in a few months the comet will be very close to the sun and the electronics will fail due to heat so the available time is limited
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11-13-2014 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FWWM
I think in a few months the comet will be very close to the sun and the electronics will fail due to heat so the available time is limited
The closest to the sun the comet gets is 1.24 AU. That's 24% further from the sun than earth.
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11-13-2014 , 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FWWM
I think in a few months the comet will be very close to the sun and the electronics will fail due to heat so the available time is limited
I dont think so. If you look at the linked orbit in previous posts its not coming closer to the sun than earth orbit so its not very warm there. In fact its even better for intensity to solar panels by a factor of 4 even vs now (500 mil vs 190 mil km say). Then it will take many months to do the reverse going away from sun so i think they have at least 1-2 years. Aug 2015 its the closest to sun, say 190-200 mil km. (i think they say in a video the comet will be losing 300 kgr of water and other gases per sec then but that is over all area so maybe 200 gr per day at the position it is now on avg lost to out gasing ?) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...webm.720p.webm). They will be to a symmetric to now position in the other side of the solar system in 15-18 months or so. So in principle i dont see why they dont have 2 years ahead of them if they want to, assuming the comet doesnt become a burning explosive hell at the closest in the selected landed location (why would with only 80-100C though unless its such type of easily deformed material that it changes a lot with even 100C, but then why didnt it destroy/deplete itself over the last 8 rotations around the sun since the time in 1959 its current orbit was established/6.5 y period?) .

Unless of course they have such type of electronics that they would warm up to 100C or more when illuminated at the closest levels or the comet starts burning/evaporating around the electronic/mechanical systems and covers them with material or something. I really need to research this better to see if they have a model to study what happens at say 200mil km from sun to this comet (other comets that get real close are way more extreme cases) but it is in principle much better than the worse that happens on the Moon (except for the outgasing) (radiation about 70% of the illuminated moon case so i expect less than 100C max temperature on the comet during day, plus if it is in a shadow now, its even better, it wont be warm for more than 1.5 hours, it may help now in ways they didnt expect. Even if the inside reach 80-100C it may not remain so hot long each time since it would take time to warm up of course even if outside it is 80-100C given the significant cold at the night side. We would have to know how they control the temperature of their electronics inside/regulate to operating range and the tolerance of the external exposed parts but 100C is probably ok for most hardcore - special built mission things)

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-13-2014 at 07:32 PM.
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11-14-2014 , 07:54 PM
I read it in a news article and in another one today (could link it but its in German). They say they landers electronics will be destroyed in March because it will be too hot. On assumption, it could be because the comet has no atmosphere (like e.g. the moon) which leads to very high temperatures in the day and very low ones in the night, even if it is not very close to the sun.
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11-15-2014 , 08:48 PM
Update from the BBC: Philae comet lander sends more data before losing power

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30058176

From above link:

"The Philae lander on the distant comet 67P has sent another stream of data back to Earth before losing power.

The little probe delivered everything expected from it, just as its failing battery dropped it into standby mode.

Philae is pressed up against a cliff. Deep shadows mean it cannot now get enough light on to its solar panels to recharge its systems.

The European Space Agency (Esa) fears this contact may have been the robot's last - certainly for a while.

A tweet from the official Philae lander account said: "I'll tell you more about my new home, comet 67P soon… zzzzz."

Philae descended to the comet's surface on Wednesday - the first time in history that a space mission has made a soft landing on a comet.

The next opportunity to talk to Philae was set to begin at around 10:00 GMT (11:00 CET), when the orbiting Rosetta satellite - which delivered it to the 4km-wide "ice mountain" - was due to come over the horizon.

But with only 1.5 hours of sunshine falling on the robot during the comet's 12-hour day, it seems doubtful the battery will have recovered enough performance to complete the radio link.

Engineers did manage to maximise the possibility of it happening, though, by sending a command to reorientate the lander.

This involved raising Philae by 4cm and rotating its main housing by 35%. This will ensure the largest solar panel catches the most light.

Even if the probe falls silent over the weekend, researchers say they are thrilled with the amount of data already acquired.

Stephan Ulamec, lander manager, said: "Prior to falling silent, the lander was able to transmit all science data gathered during the First Science Sequence.

"This machine performed magnificently under tough conditions, and we can be fully proud of the incredible scientific success Philae has delivered."

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Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
11-16-2014 , 01:10 PM
What a colossal waste of money, lol tethers.
Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
11-16-2014 , 02:20 PM
Trading money for knowledge is never a waste
Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
11-18-2014 , 04:08 PM
Canada's Vast 'Sudbury Basin' Was Created By Comet, Study Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...usaolp00000592

From above link:

What kind of object punched a huge hole in Ontario?

Since the 1960s, scientists have believed that the Sudbury Basin, a vast crater in Northern Ontario, was created by the impact of some very large object. But it wasn't clear whether the object was a rocky asteroid or an icy comet--until now.

According to a new study by researchers in Canada and Ireland, it was a comet.....

"Of course, the Rosetta mission that has been in the news lately will (hopefully) provide unprecedented information about the structure and chemistry of comets," Petrus said in an email to The Huffington Post, "so we are waiting anxiously to hear their results!"

The study will be published in the Feb. 1 issue of the journal Terra Nova.

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In update news: Comet team detects organic molecules, basis of life on Earth

http://news.yahoo.com/comet-team-det...161825051.html

From above link:

BERLIN (Reuters) - European comet lander Philae 'sniffed' organic molecules containing the carbon element that is the basis of life on Earth before its primary battery ran out and it shut down, German scientists said.

They said it was not yet clear whether they included the complex compounds that make up proteins. One of the key aims of the mission is to discover whether carbon-based compounds, and through them, ultimately, life, were brought to early Earth by comets.

Philae landed on comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko after a 10-year journey through space aboard the Rosetta spacecraft on a mission to unlock details about how planets and maybe even how life evolved.

It wrapped up its 57-hour mission on the comet's surface on Saturday after radioing back data from a series of experiments as its battery ran out.
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Last edited by Zeno; 11-18-2014 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Added link
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11-20-2014 , 12:28 AM
There has to be a Duracell bunny joke in there somewhere.
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11-20-2014 , 07:53 PM
The funny thing is they replaced a plutonium battery with a solar panel purely for political reasons (this was confirmed by mission command).
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11-20-2014 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FWWM
The funny thing is they replaced a plutonium battery with a solar panel purely for political reasons (this was confirmed by mission command).
I certainly want this is true and it seems so. Just another example of Poetic Justice which should make Lastcardcharlie extra happy today [see the SMP confessions thread].
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11-20-2014 , 11:30 PM
Yes mankind is very idiotic about a lot of things even the "revolutionary", "antisystem" ones that are trying to be good and progressive for society and environment are also idiots going all the way to the other extreme (look how they treated BruceZ for example). Radio isotope decay batteries are a must for such missions that take such effort. The risk they are afraid is that an explosion takes place at lift off that may spread the isotopes but this is ridiculous because they can design it in such a way that it cannot be turned to dust, remain intact and have also an identifier to locate it if it fails and lands somewhere. Plus most explosions take place at launch location first minute so its on the general area of the launch site or the nearby sea and nobody else gets in trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiois...tric_generator

(Mars Science Laboratory Curiosity ie the last big rover has one by the way)

In particular see this;

238Pu

Plutonium-238 has a half-life of 87.7 years, reasonable power density of 0.54 kilowatts per kilogram., and exceptionally low gamma and neutron radiation levels. 238Pu has the lowest shielding requirements; Only three candidate isotopes meet the last criterion (not all are listed above) and need less than 25 mm of lead shielding to block the radiation. 238Pu (the best of these three) needs less than 2.5 mm, and in many cases, no shielding is needed in a 238Pu RTG, as the casing itself is adequate. 238Pu has become the most widely used fuel for RTGs, in the form of plutonium(IV) oxide (PuO2). Unlike the latter RTG fuels, 238Pu must be specifically synthesized and is not abundant as a nuclear waste product. At present only Russia has maintained consistent 238Pu production, while the USA restarted production at ~1.5 kg a year in 2013 after a ~25-year hiatus. At present these are the only countries with declared production of 238Pu in quantities useful for RTGs. 238Pu is produced at typically 85% purity and its purity decreases over time.


So maybe it wasnt as available as one might imagine 10 years ago and they might have thought it wouldn't be a big deal (cost/risk analysis etc).



The last updates on Philae

"Final operations and communication loss

On the morning of 14 November 2014, the battery charge was estimated to be only enough for continuing operations for the remainder of the day. After first obtaining data from instruments whose operation did not require mechanical movement, comprising about 80% of the planned initial science observations, both the MUPUS soil penetrator and the SD2 drill were commanded to deploy. Subsequently, MUPUS data[38] as well as COSAC and Ptolemy data were returned. A final set of CONSERT data was also downlinked towards the end of operations. During the evening's transmission session, the lander was lifted 4 cm and rotated 35° in an attempt to position the solar panels more favorably for the future.[39] Shortly afterwards, electrical power dwindled rapidly and all instruments were forced to shut down. The downlink rate finally slowed to a trickle before coming to a stop.[40] Contact was lost at 00:36 UTC on 15 November.[41]

DLR's lander manager Stephan Ulamec stated:

Prior to falling silent, the lander was able to transmit all science data gathered during the First Science Sequence. ... This machine performed magnificently under tough conditions, and we can be fully proud of the incredible scientific success Philae has delivered.[41]

Analysis of the data returned indicates that MUPUS did not penetrate much into the subsurface, which rather than being fluffy as expected is apparently as hard as ice,[42] and that drill samples were not delivered to COSAC.[43]
Potential future reawakening

Philae appears to have lost all communication capability, but it is possible that by August 2015, when the comet has moved much closer to the Sun in its orbit, the lander's solar panels will receive enough illumination for ESA to reawaken it.[40] As the primary battery wound down "the European Space Agency decided to attempt to tilt the lander's biggest solar panel toward the sun — a last-ditch maneuver that scientists believe may have paid off." Philae project manager Stephan Ulmanec said a few days of sun on the solar panels is all it would take to resume collecting data."



Also;

http://www.wired.com/2013/09/nuclear-space-missions/

Last edited by masque de Z; 11-20-2014 at 11:53 PM.
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11-21-2014 , 04:02 AM
LOL, Europeans. Plutonium radiation is about as safe for people as radiation can be. It won't even penetrate bare skin. They could have used less than 1 kg to provide the power they needed.
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11-21-2014 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill
LOL, Europeans. Plutonium radiation is about as safe for people as radiation can be. It won't even penetrate bare skin. They could have used less than 1 kg to provide the power they needed.

Pu-238 does decay by alpha radiation (at ~5.6 MeV) which does not penetrate the skin and dissipates quickly in air through interaction with other atoms. Only caveat is that any radiation that is breathed into the body (lung tissue is delicate) is dangerous, so particulates of Pu-238 that become inhalable are a concern. But that happening in this case was obviously minuscule.

Pu-238 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238

Alpha Decay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_decay
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11-21-2014 , 12:40 PM
Tl:dr did the watch land on the comet in the end?

Seems a complete waste as there will be nobody there to use it but I guess its good marketing for Rolex or whoever.
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12-03-2014 , 01:51 PM
Just in time for us SMP'ers:

Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko Revealed Finally in Full Color Glory


http://www.techtimes.com/articles/21...olor-glory.htm

From above link:

Those who have been observant while looking at the images of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, which were released by the European Space Agency (ESA) since Rosetta started taking pictures of the comet earlier this year, may have noticed that the photos are all in black and white.

For the first time, however, Rosetta had a color photo of the comet it has been closely following since August this year. In the true-color photo, comet 67P has hues that resemble that of a reddish brown clay.

The image was released along with an abstract for the presentation "Color Variegation on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko," which is set to be shown at the upcoming American Geophysical Union conference in San Francisco on Dec. 18.
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12-03-2014 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
It should be noted, however, that the color photo does not necessarily show the true color of comet 67P as it could be seen from the naked eye. The ESA had earlier described the comet to be blacker than coal.

Previous black and white images of the comet that were released by ESA were taken by Rosetta's navigation camera (NAVCAM). The space agency likewise pointed out that these gray scale images do not accurately show the actual color of the comet.

"The images, taken in black-and-white, are grey-scaled according to the relative brightness of the features observed, which depends on local illumination conditions, surface characteristics and composition of the given area," the ESA said.

Describing images of the comet taken by Rosetta while at a proximity of less than 10 kilometers from the comet's surface, the ESA said that enhancements were made to emphasize and bring out certain features and areas.
.
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01-22-2015 , 05:17 PM
See link below for more details and information:

[Comet Porn with Super Detailed Photos

Portion of above link is copied below. Don't miss the photos!

_____________________________

It's craggy, powdery, mysterious, and even holds the building blocks of life. Scientists are now getting an up-close-and-personal view of a comet flying through deep space, thanks to Europe's Rosetta spacecraft.

The European Space Agency's Rosetta mission has now found that Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko's is even stranger than initially expected. A series of new findings beamed back to Earth by the spacecraft since its arrival at the comet in 2014 could help scientists learn more about how comets evolved through time.

The new comet findings, detailed in a special issue of the journal Science this week, are even calling into question an old axiom of comet research. Many scientists have dubbed comets "dirty snowballs," but now it might be more appropriate to call this comet a "snowy dustball" because of its dust-to-gas ration, said Alessandra Rotundi, the principal investigator of Rosetta's GIADA dust grain analyzer instrument. Some comets might be "dirty snowballs," while others are "snowy dustballs."

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Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
06-14-2015 , 10:50 AM
http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/56019-ros...m-hibernation/

"14 June 2015
Rosetta's lander Philae has woken up after seven months in hibernation on the surface of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko.

The signals were received at ESA's European Space Operations Centre in Darmstadt at 22:28 CEST on 13 June. More than 300 data packets have been analysed by the teams at the Lander Control Center at the German Aerospace Center (DLR).

"Philae is doing very well: It has an operating temperature of -35ºC and has 24 Watts available," explains DLR Philae Project Manager Dr. Stephan Ulamec. "The lander is ready for operations."

For 85 seconds Philae "spoke" with its team on ground, via Rosetta, in the first contact since going into hibernation in November.

When analysing the status data it became clear that Philae also must have been awake earlier: "We have also received historical data - so far, however, the lander had not been able to contact us earlier."

Now the scientists are waiting for the next contact. There are still more than 8000 data packets in Philae’s mass memory which will give the DLR team information on what happened to the lander in the past few days on Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko.

Philae shut down on 15 November 2015 at 1:15 CET after being in operation on the comet for about 60 hours. Since 12 March 2015 the communication unit on orbiter Rosetta was turned on to listen out for the lander.

Latest updates on the Rosetta blog and via twitter (@ESA_Rosetta).

Rosetta is an ESA mission with contributions from its Member States and NASA. Rosetta's Philae lander is contributed by a consortium led by DLR, MPS, CNES and ASI. "
Landing on a Comet: Watch Quote
09-30-2016 , 07:02 AM
Rosetta is currently on it's way to collide with the Comet.

Last edited by Zeno; 09-30-2016 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Correction
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09-30-2016 , 07:21 AM
Signal loss confirmed.
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