Originally Posted by chezlaw
what a strawman. The poor have got stunningly richer, nothing like staying anywhere near the same.
Greed is not limited to the rich.
Are you serious about the middle class or the poor doing well the past 20-30 years? How about the past 10? Western societies only please! (why? because they are the only saturated ones where capitalism is expected to fail now.)
Of course if you use 100 years sure. But this is because of science and technology and not capitalism at least not the current inept , greedy, unethical version of it seen left and right in today's financial market systems and politics/companies etc. Although i agree capitalism is necessary in such earlier societies that do not yet have strong technology (because such world couldnt provide the avg person a standard of living that was respectful or a drive and commitment based on strong education and ideals rather than profit). We needed to elevate as mankind on the exploitation of poor ignorant masses. Sure. Not very different from using animals either! But we are past this point now that science and technology is so much better. Absolutely we needed capitalism compared to the monstrosity that was the alternatives like communism or fascism or monarchy or even the joke of inefficient pseudo socialism that is prevalent in many countries today which is the core reason the state system is so hated by hardcore capitalists (until of course they need the state to save them from all the problems they never cared to solve properly because it wasnt "profitable") :-P
Just because state has been not run efficiently as a good company but allowed to create deficits and have unethical rigid moron self serving career politicians etc all kinds of problems it doesnt mean that the state system if run with science and technology as core determinants of policy will also fail!
Everything great that mankind ever did that improved us rapidly in large scale was a state cooperating effort whether winning wars of protecting freedoms or going to the moon or providing education to people or an infrastructure or security or health services etc.
That is not to say the drive of individuals to prosper and accumulate wealth hasnt proven a great force too. Of course it has. But you see this only works well in unsaturated systems that dont face severe problems where becoming unethical to win is not necessary as the dominant mode of living! And its also a fairly inefficient manner to do things.
Basically leaving it up to the individual and profit making as motivation alone in a world where people and local interests fight each other any way possible is like trusting progress to a slightly uptrending Brownian motion!!! Well congrats for failing to notice the severe superior advantages of coordinated guided progress to meet specific goals not the accidental alternative. Manhattan project or Apollo project or Parthenon or Pyramids in antiquity or you name it!
You need a world that not only will continue to allow and enlarge freedoms for the individual and allow the possibility of contributions from them but which also takes its own progress in its own state hands as a serious problem to solve. We are morons to entrust the progress of society to random manipulated markets. Are we serious here???
We have f**king huge problems as society and the only hope to solve them is if someone gets rich by doing it??? Are we that complete screwed and dense as a species???
Ps: Ayn Rand by the way is clueless comfortably blinded by the rape of freedom that was communist revolution of 1917 from which she ran away. And she didnt live in today's world thank you!