|
|
| Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy. |
02-03-2008, 07:02 PM
|
#1
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: A spoonful of sugar
Posts: 22,446
|
The idea that we are alone in the universe..
The idea that we are alone in the universe seems absurd to me.
To me, life seems like a perfectly natural and normal accurance in a universe that only gets more complex as it goes along. The idea that it springs about only once makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Amirite?
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:32 PM
|
#2
|
|
centurion
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melee I.
Posts: 157
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
yes
Edit, is this true:
"a universe that only gets more complex as it goes along"?
Last edited by Nulle; 02-03-2008 at 07:37 PM.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:35 PM
|
#3
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: self aware
Posts: 5,456
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
I wonder how Christians would explain it if we do make some type of contact with other life forms.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:45 PM
|
#4
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,334
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
How do you know we're not just a really long shot fluke?
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:50 PM
|
#5
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: A spoonful of sugar
Posts: 22,446
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcho22
I wonder how Christians would explain it if we do make some type of contact with other life forms.
|
How do they explain it when they come in contact with other humans with a 'different' religion?
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:52 PM
|
#6
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: self aware
Posts: 5,456
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
They just pray for them.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 07:54 PM
|
#7
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Austalia
Posts: 5,055
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielsio
The idea that we are alone in the universe seems absurd to me.
To me, life seems like a perfectly natural and normal accurance in a universe that only gets more complex as it goes along. The idea that it springs about only once makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Amirite?
|
The problem is, there is no real understanding of what's required for life to begin - so no understanding of how likely it is that that state of affairs will exist elsewhere. Similarly, even if the necessary conditions exist somewhere else in the universe, we have no idea how likely it is that life will actually eventuate. Perhaps the original spark is incredibly unlikely, despite the prerequisites occuring all over the place.
We're not in any position to say whether it's almost a certainty there's life elsewhere, it's almost an impossibility or anywhere in between. I think people assume that because one of the variables (the number of stars) is known to us and seems big enough to almost guarantee life - the rest of the variables wont be small enough to negate this near certainty. That's an unjustified position.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:13 PM
|
#8
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: where? why?
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
The problem is, there is no real understanding of what's required for life to begin - so no understanding of how likely it is that that state of affairs will exist elsewhere. Similarly, even if the necessary conditions exist somewhere else in the universe, we have no idea how likely it is that life will actually eventuate. Perhaps the original spark is incredibly unlikely, despite the prerequisites occuring all over the place.
We're not in any position to say whether it's almost a certainty there's life elsewhere, it's almost an impossibility or anywhere in between. I think people assume that because one of the variables (the number of stars) is known to us and seems big enough to almost guarantee life - the rest of the variables wont be small enough to negate this near certainty. That's an unjustified position.
|
Its probable that we do understand what's required for life and that's stuff going on with a balance between a stable environment and a changing one - there's plenty of technical literature on the subject, can't recall references but Kaufman rings a bell.
Its possible there's more to it than that but there doesn't seem any reason to think so. There's nothing mysterious about life except that we can't pinpoint when non-life becomes life (always a clue its nothing special).
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:15 PM
|
#9
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,755
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Its probable that we do understand what's required for life and that's stuff going on with a balance between a stable environment and a changing one - there's plenty of technical literature on the subject, can't recall references but Kaufman rings a bell.
Its possible there's more to it than that but there doesn't seem any reason to think so. There's nothing mysterious about life except that we can't pinpoint when non-life becomes life (always a clue its nothing special).
|
It's an even better clue that no such point exists.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:21 PM
|
#10
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: where? why?
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyme
It's an even better clue that no such point exists.
|
an even better clue that that the point is that no such point exists, and as no-one would deny that self-replicating processes will develop it inevitably follows that so will life.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:24 PM
|
#11
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,334
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
I would deny this.
Last edited by Phil153; 02-03-2008 at 08:41 PM.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:29 PM
|
#12
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: self aware
Posts: 5,456
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
I think people assume that because one of the variables (the number of stars) is known to us and seems big enough to almost guarantee life - the rest of the variables wont be small enough to negate this near certainty. That's an unjustified position.
|
It's more justifiable than saying the opposite.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:34 PM
|
#13
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: where? why?
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil153
I would deny this.
|
go on then
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:41 PM
|
#14
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,334
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
an even better clue that that the point is that no such point exists, and as no-one would deny that self-replicating processes will develop it inevitably follows that so will life.
|
This is so poorly defined as to be meaningless. If a prion exists on Jupiter, does it follow that life is inevitable? If a prion surrounded by brine and a lipid wall exists underground on Venus, is life inevitable? What if it's in a soup of ample prions and lipids, such that copies can be made?
I think you're claiming way too much. There are steps beyond self replication that we don't even know is possible on earth. We don't know how good the surrounding chemistry has to be, or what the energy requirements are, or what the radiation thresholds are, or how long stability is required, before robust life can emerge. It's far from a given that life is probable to exist once replication exists, let alone inevitable.
|
|
|
02-03-2008, 08:45 PM
|
#15
|
|
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: where? why?
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: The idea that we are alone in the universe..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil153
This is so poorly defined as to be meaningless. If a prion exists on Jupiter, does it follow that life is inevitable? If a prion surrounded by brine and a lipid wall exists underground on Venus, is life inevitable? What if it's in a soup of ample prions and lipids, such that copies can be made?
I think you're claiming way too much. There are steps beyond self replication that we don't even know is possible on earth. We don't know how good the surrounding chemistry has to be, or what the energy requirements are, or what the radiation thresholds are, or how long stability is required, before robust life can emerge. It's far from a given that life is probable to exist once replication exists, let alone inevitable.
|
I gave you a very vague outline (though its fairly obvious stuff) and recommended you read the techical literature if you want the dots filled in.
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 PM.
|