I debated whether to post this thread in the religious category or in this, but
since the question is less about God and more about human psychology (soteriologically speaking) I ended up here.

Question #1: Is desire the root of all psychological suffering?

Question #2: (If yes) Is it possible, as a human, to be free from desire
and the suffering it causes?

Question #3: (If yes) How would one go about freeing oneself from desire?

Some thoughts I have written down that goes along with the questions:
- "Desire is a dog chasing its own tail"
- "Desire is not accepting reality as-it-is"
- "Desire is grasping for a specific future and/or clinging to a specific past"
- "Fear is the shadow of desire; no desire = no fear"
- "Desire is like a black hole; love is like a sun"
- "Desire is like a grasping claw; love is like an opening flower"
- "The desire to be desireless is also a desire"

Discuss

Does desire exist?

Buddha states this explicitly ;rid one's self of the desire to reincarnate. All is suffering; Buddha.

At least mentally. I experience many desires for future ideals, while at the same time understanding (at least partially understanding) that these desires for future ideals is making me discontent in the present.

The conflict between my desires and reality "as-it-is" creates a kind of psychological friction and disharmony which I experience as suffering. I want to be free from this suffering and be relaxed and at peace -- hence the question.

This is my current view of it.

I think "desire" combined with mercy on yourself is a working concept.

No "desire" may in fact induce suffering, takes away the meaning aspect. And may take you to a spot you aren't comfortable with, through passivity.

This morning, a student was telling me how last weekend he attended some Buddhist festival in Battersea park. There is a Buddhist pagoda there, and every year they bless it, or something. Anyhow, he wound up fixing the head monk's mobile phone voicemail (I can relate), and the head monk was happy about it.

So, the head monk desired that his voicemail be fixed, didn't he?

I agree that this is certainly a paradoxical topic.

That is what I meant when I wrote, "The desire to be desireless is also a desire". I think this (ironically increasing suffering by desiring to be desireless) is what monks, nuns and ascetics has inflicted upon themselves.
But I don't think "worldly indulgence" is the answer either.

"Middle Way", "Golden Mean", "Balance", etc.

Not perfect, yet.

Yes, I have read quite a bit of eastern philosophy lately and it has definitely made a deep impression on me.

Most likely, yes. After all, every buddhist monk is not an Enlightened Buddha just as every christian is not a Christ (yet).

However, going one layer deeper, I would also say that to desire NOT to be happy when you fix my voicemail is also a desire.
I think this is where cynics and stoics have gone wrong in their pursuit of "equanimity" and "passionlessness". True equanimity is much subtler and more paradoxical than to
merely outwardly appear as an unmovable statue, never smiling and never crying.

True desirelessness means also being free from the desire to be desireless.
True indifference means also being indifferent towards ones own indifference.
I think this is what it means when it is said, "to live in the world but not being of it", or, "the lotus has its roots in the mud, but floats above it".

No doubt , I'm not a Buddhist but I think the idea is to leave the wheel of life and in order to effect this one must eliminate desires in this life; work in progress.

Really, the Buddha didn't deny the presence of joy in one's life but the work is to leave the earth and all of its manifestations. The Buddha accomplished this and no longer incarnates on the earth.

Sometimes joy arises even if you think you can eliminate it; in that case the search here is the ascetic life and the denial of the earth even to the point of pain.

I don't believe the Buddha was in the ascetic camp as its profundity is not within the measuring stick of the intellect. Just throwing away the phone or believing it is fate because it does not work would be akin to foolishness. the bargain is bigger, the Buddha is cool.

From what I can make of Buddhism, the work of the individual man is to leave the earth and not return; it is a mantra for individuals and especial individuals , not for a whole nation.

The western ethos is to "work the earth" , no matter what, and this in no way denies the Buddhist presentation. Time marches on and Buddhism is certainly about Love and is the harbinger of the future manifestation of love of a cosmic reality. Enough, thanx.

I recall seeing a Buddhist monk in Thailand walking (not levitating) with his flowing orange colored robes and bad haircut. What was interesting was that he had on plug earphones and was adjusting the volume on whatever he was listening to with his electronic device. I always wondered if he was grooving to AC/DC or some dreary monotone chant. Now many young monks in Thailand do it for just a set time. Many are unaware of this. See info:


Socially, every Thai male is excepted to become a monk for a short period in his life, optimally between the time he finishes school and the time he starts a career or marries. Men or boys under 20 years of age may enter the Sangha as novices - this is not unusual since a family earns great merit when one if its sons 'takes robe and bowl'.

_________________________

Most of these novices only invest in being a monk for a limited time. I saw many of them polluting the streets of Bangkok, with silly smiles on their faces and their hands down inside their robes doing who knows what.

Buddha laughed at most of his disciples later in life; which shows his wisdom.

He most likely would have laughed at you as well...(Which, of course, you don't care about!)

Btw, are you satisfied with your life?
If you were to die today, would you feel that nothing was missing?

After accepting desire and after accepting suffering, one can lead to asking: Is acceptance the root of more questions?

Hi OP, a friendly suggestion:

If you haven't already read it, check out "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coehlo. I think you might like it.

Buddhism in Thailand (and Asia more generally) is hopelessly broken and corrupt.

More beer would be an improvement, possibly.

I've never had sex with a goat. Did I miss something?

I'm a Taoist. Old School of course.

WTF does this mean lol? If one died today they would feel nothing after the brain's last battle for plausible serenity and chase of lasting comfort, for it is game over (the light and sense of fulfillment and happiness they claim in near death experiences and which i have seen in dreams also as a very young child).

So you would feel nothing because you are no longer operating as a thinker. You stop existing and all that remains is dying cells. Its one of the greatest losses the universe experiences with the permanent loss of a great observer and player. Complexity cries for a second and the game begins again with another born later giving complexity a chance to try again and discover new highs.

Nobody really dies in terms of consequences so all are both missed and still present in terms of their influences. But the person is no longer. It is the others that miss them.

[ _ ] Realism itt.

I meant, if you are lying on the death bed, experiencing death closing in (but still alive and conscious), would you be at ease or would you feel that your life was somehow not complete?

And how do you know what it's like to to dead, or are you just guessing?

Ok now i know what you meant to say but needed that description. On the last day all people should be glad they existed and happy they played the game. Any regret is for future behavior when living. No regrets. Just offer to others the best last gift with some love, optimism and a smile that yes it was all worth it even with all the suffering if any (suffering leads to wisdom to know how it all could be better and this is your victory then to know the difference even if betrayed by probability and one of its aspects, people). Regret is for when you are still living and have time to do things differently. It is to allow wisdom to change the path based on evaluation of the past.

As for the other question...

I know because we "die" once a day when we sleep (minus the dreams and the semi awake moments etc) . Unless you think that those 6-7 hours you do not recall anything the universe didnt exist playing the same game without you having any record of it at all. This is precisely what it means to be dead. It is to sleep and never wake up again. Every time we wake up its a new beginning.

Somewhere between the last moment of consciousness and the moment the head is only a skull without any flesh (years later) all the game is lost. I personally think its currently lost probably within 5 min of lack of oxygen but likely permanently lost within an hour so the definition of death we have today i expect will be moved to be able to save people within the hour with better technology or initial action until the methods are deployed more properly. But i expect they are "dead" until all the recovery happens in the same sense of being in a coma or sleeping or under general anesthesia.

Why is is too terribly disturbing to people to accept that its all so easily understood with science eventually. The brain function is basic physics and chemistry. It is not even quantum mechanics in how it works other than the chemical bonds basis of it that is QM in origin but you know what i mean. The brain is a pretty much classical system that gets input from quantum noise all the time but its not operating with some mystical quantum mechanical miracle in place.


The world is very beautiful in how simple it actually is to explain eventually all the greatness out there.


PS: You could sleep and wake up in another continent and you wouldn't even know it unless you walked outside. Now that is my next sci-fi project. To wake up in another body and not be sure if you are you or a brain copy. But how could you be anything but you. It always feels its you, always even 100 copies later they are all happy to be the one. This is precisely how it would feel to suddenly go online with full sentient system in place. It would be like waking up in a new continent and a new body. Maybe we will never get to do a full (almost faithful) brain state copy or transfer but we will eventually create a brain simulation that will feel like that or will rapidly age like a baby to adult in a day and then continue to exist growing in wisdom rapidly. It is already happening in many research labs (eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Brain_Project) .

Interesting answers (although I don't exactly agree with everything).

Another question (to anybody): if consciousness ends with bodily death, when did it really begin?
And what is really "me"? Did "I" begin to exist when my dad's sperm penetrated my mother's egg? Or is "the self" other than "the body"?

The concepts evolved through a chicken and egg like process.

Yes you existed the moment the first cell was created with your own genetic code. But you existed of course as another state of you that had no consciousness. When you are born probably you have a very basic level of consciousness in the sense of being aware about things happening but most of them make no sense yet so i expect the picture is very fuzzy and you are simply reacting without any sense of design or elaborate control ie thoughts yet.

Almost all humans say they dont remember their lives before age 3-4-5. Clearly at this age you still behaved with planning and playing and were talking and had ideas but you do not recall the experiences as much. Around 2 years of age it starts appearing that toddlers are self aware and recognize themselves in mirrors and games (taking pride joy in self achievement etc) and think of themselves as another person externally (like recognize how others perceive them etc).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_stage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpie

You started off with a consideration of your understanding(s) vis a vis your questions but now you're acting in the manner of a gadfly ; you must now answer what you ask, as best you can .

The discussion will then turn worthwhile , hopefully, but at least there will be some semblance of effort.