BrianTheMick2 maybe you prove lucky enough to one day find out my benefit from posting here and why it exceeds easily what gained from the lectures of eg 5 years at Stanford in many regards...

Ancient Greeks had Agora to talk/debate exchange ideas. We have something else that may prove even more powerful or we could take it there with more care. I can assure you in a typical day on campus you do not get to see people from 20 different fields and parts of the world exchanging often valuable information and perspectives about our world with each others (it is all very segregated). In fact if you remove the organized classes/education aspect of it that is the core value, the rest is a lot more hostile to the individual than most can ever imagine and far less cooperational in research terms even in some areas such as theory. A true theorist is in fact a very lonely individual thinker. You should examine the ideas Einstein had about doing physics and what it takes from a thinker to derive original material. You must draw from everything around you to enrich your imagination in times of interesting changes such as these will prove.

You had me at "potato rock."

If we can find a "wheat rock" we can make pierogies!

Also, the idea of a golf ball going the whole way around came from a sci-fi story (that I can't remember whether I enjoyed) that involved people on the moon having to regularly take cover based on a previous war that placed projectiles in extremely low orbit.

You have benefited from posting?!? I have primarily benefited from reading the posts of others - particularly when someone is nice enough to post a link for further reading. I already know what I know, and the best thing that has come from me posting is me editing it when I realize I was misthinking. A few times someone else has been QUITE KIND by pointing out an error or lack of knowledge for me.

Well, that, and I've made a friend here and there.

I consider myself to be quite kind towards you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Vesta looks pretty much towards potato and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/243_Ida even more so.

I find it quite funny that your edit of the post I responded to basically said what I said...

The only bit that confuses me is that you seem to have little regard for me giving you information that is outside of your area of expertise.

In order to post you read others so posting is seen for me as an experience in debating, exchanging ideas and learning even from your own thoughts and sometimes even calculations done here both directly and indirectly by forcing myself to answer things. I consider that i have learned or felt inspired myself to study elsewhere, using educational material i have (books, ebooks etc) (but its impossible to go through in a lifetime without some particular motivation triggering it) a few significant (albeit randomly offered) things from posts that others have done here (BruceZ is a good example because of very committed rare focus and dedication but so are also many other regular posters i wont have to name one by one but who i nevertheless respect substantially).

For any thinker their own self is a major source of improvement in their ideas also. When you post you force those ideas to be taken a bit more seriously if you care for the process than having them remaining in your mind often unexplored. In fact the detail about this starting as a poker site has been lost to me regarding SMP a long time ago. The SMP forum format realized here for me represents a paradigm change in internet experience because of the variety of individuals from different topics seen. It could go to so much better places easily if posts are taken more seriously.

If you think for example that i havent gained things never taught to me at any campus i have been before from some selective posts here, you are not paying close attention to what is going on in some threads or overestimate formal science education as it actually happens on the "inside". Furthermore nothing can replace personal study and whatever triggers it. There is a lot to be gained actually in many of the more technical threads here. Some of it rarely seen in lectures on campus too and other that compares well to it. Obviously organized education is far more better in discipline but it doesnt derive range from the input of so many different people all at the same place. I can honestly say i have seen online math techniques not particularly taught directly in prior classes taken for example. In an organized class you have say one professor. You do not have 10 potential ones (even if not as advanced). Take a technical thread started in some places here (eg Probability) and see how advanced it can get on occasion. From the perspective of an undergrad even the homework thread offers a way to access others from many fields that are easily RA/TA material or better in tutoring capacity. An undergrad on campus has access only at particular hours to such help from fewer potential helpers.

Its not surprising to me. People here come from many different areas and experiences. Some of the problems they share are quite original and worthy of further research. To an extend such random exchanges take place in a department hall/corridor or side blackboards too but its never so dedicated and available 24/7 and "politics" free.


Also regarding this;

I edited before reading you. I always edit heavily after posting for several minutes. If you think i think little of you or your advise then you are wrong. Its the method and the heavy sarcasm and games desires that i think little of.

I meant my questions to be a bit more personal. What have YOU gained? What has changed in YOU from your interactions here?

Brian its so much that where can one start?! My ideas on free will for example did not exist before SMP because i had never discussed them anywhere else with other people. My ideas on alien life, Fermi Paradox etc and the role of complexity in the universe etc, the emerging role of AI etc have evolved while posting here. There is so much more that i may want to keep for myself. It can prove even more substantial over time with better quality exchanges obviously. This is why losing people like Bruce undermines the process. And fighting each other or insulting each other with jokes a little bit every day makes that breakdown more and more likely. People need to respect and care for each other even when being funny. Its a better choice than other alternatives.

What changes a thinker? The experience and creation of new thoughts of course. What triggers them can be many things, why not even this experience here 1% of the time 10% or whatever? I laugh when people think that this here is not actually part of "life"! Do most people get levels of intellectual intimacy experienced here in their personal lives or at work where all kinds of political garbage and conformity and bs hypocritical codes of behavior tailored around tons of self interest prevail? Sure enough that comes with a ton of garbage experiences too but whatever, we can pick what we remember and value.

Who said that I don't care for you? You do piss me off from time to time because you are who you are, but I like you even though you refuse to carefully read any link about humans that I (or Zeno) kindly present to you.

If I didn't like you, you wouldn't frustrate me so. If I didn't like you, I wouldn't bother to make jokes at you.

Could we take the fighting to PU, please?

I like the fact that this forum is for the most part made up of real smart people and creative ones too. You know people that can make the unusual connections and have a lot of fun with it too.

Imagineers.

I love reading the forum for stuff I can understand, and stuff that pushes my understanding. The fact that people can have fun with it also is a huge plus.

Bit honestly, if I want to hear two smart people bitch at each other over nothing, I'll just put my parents in the same room and save the $30 on the internet.

That was fun.

Yes especially the thanks for how to get the thing rotating fast part...Which is why its so much more satisfying to cooperate - even competitively so (that is the best part) - in any way, than to play attitude games. My objection to excessive sarcasm stems from my recognition of the opportunity loss its presents...I didnt like it at 14 and i still dont decades later. Its not about any sense of hurt or trauma as it may be for some. You cannot hurt a theoretical physicist more than his own attempt to understand nature can. Its about the you can easily do better little thing always staring you in the eyes like a child you just screamed at...


Instead you can ask how do you deal with the gradual development of a rotation that makes it tough to hold things together at the surface by the time its starting to be a decent fraction of g. That further constraints how to go about it. Or instead of asking that, you can ridicule the idea for that very reason. See the difference? One approach accepts the problem and tries to see how to deal with it (cooperation) and the other only wants to tear things down...

That's it. Colonoscopies for everyone, as soon as I can find my 3' diameter pipe and electric hedge trimmers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olQU...etailpage#t=48

Stupid calc error here sorry. The jump should last only 13sec not 2min. I knew that felt ridiculous starting from 2m/sec. Still 13 seconds is plenty of time to feel like a flight. Upgrade it to 3m/sec and reach 15m for 20 seconds.

Amazing. Orbiting in a different plane than approaching

Thats because it needed to enter a polar orbit so that it can map it more efficiently over time so it needed to be in a plane vertical to its equator plane which probably was closer to the plane of the solar system or the original flight plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_orbit

It uses mostly ion propulsion Xenon gas, one of the first spaceships to use ion propulsion almost exclusively (some ~400 kgr of fuel only). Its a 1200 kgr ship with 1300W solar power system.

According to the trajectory demonstration it will go until April before we get any better pictures. Dawn will be the farthest past Ceres in a week or so, then approaching. See you then

Right. You made a joke (obviously horrifically sarcastic and purely to play horrible games of some sort)) about Zeno's post about cocaine on Ceres, and I made a joke about your post about Zeno's post on cocaine on Ceres.

Completely different.

It has a pretty short rotation period, so there it would make a huge difference whether you were at the equator, but if we leave out any gains from the rotation...

A vertical leap of 1m on earth would equate to approximately a 34m vertical leap on ceres and you would be off the surface for over 30 seconds...

Of course, I would most want to see how long it would take before you could adjust and land the right way up consistently.

Gotta send there someone like this

In reality this guy fails to understand (if he views his "jump" as what he measured and not what he cleared) that he didnt jump 65in or whatever 1.65m. What matters is what in effect his efforts result to in terms of his center of mass (CM). CM doing a movement from something like 0.9m height (if his height is 1.75m say) when he starts to a final position of about 1.65+0.35m maybe as he is barely making it while heavily bent up there. So in effect the true jump delivers an energy equivalent of going from 0.9 to 2m so its like 1.1m pure jump not 1.65m. Then of course in Ceres he would have had to do that while wearing a suit that is heavy and hard to bend like that so fast (still a heavy suit there is very light in terms of how it feels but it can easily double your true weight there hence the real effective mass you need to accelerate). A slight help by not having air resistance exists but its nowhere near countering that enough. This is why i used some more reasonable 2-3m/sec jump speed that is like 0.3m true height change on earth for a non super fit heavily dressed human. Now an additional detail that may be worthy to examine is how the different gravity affects the extension of the muscles (total energy they can deliver? avg or peak power?) there during the acceleration phase that the feet is still touching the ground but the rest of the body has started to move from a highly bent stage to an extended one at take off.

Brian,

The rotational period is like 9h so the speed at equator would be about 91m/sec. A significant complication. I referred to it because it will affect the calculation in how you aim etc making it not as simple as shooting ahead of yourself in some random direction and expecting it will come back along that same line ie in the sense of shooting yourself in the back. It would be a nontrivial calculation thats all i meant with it. The magnitude of the speed would be affected too but 90 vs 370 in vector terms or so is not a big change so i didnt use it for that reason, only as an example of additional complication. All those complications though together with the topographic uncertainty and non sphericity would point to a larger speed (going more elliptical etc) even when finally solved by some orbit program computer. There are a class of orbits that start and end at the same "person" or small "neighborhood" of local surface coordinates. One of them is simply throwing the object up and catching it lol. But you need those that go around the planet in some sense too.

Brian i am not trying to show what you said is silly even if you may think that. I am only helping you see the complex nature of the thing desired to happen. I do not demolish what others say. I try to find further structure, complexity and possibilities in it. This is why referring what i said in other threads about human society etc and calling it silly (as if some naive kid is talking about it) had no place here. I never do that with you or anyone here. And what i say is not silly to begin with if you care to examine in detail what it is i am saying and the ton of detail i leave out and i am aware of its existence and necessity.

When i make jokes i try to add some value to the discussion (eg here how big the object is). I didnt intend to ridicule Zeno's claim ( i like his humor more often than that of others actually ) as it was a joke to begin with, i only wanted to counter it with another joke that was on the nerdy side by estimating how big such cocaine mass would be for full appreciation of the funny term "heaps of it" and i never make a joke directed at the person that said something, only the content of what was said. That is a big facking difference. When you offer the smart ass comment about Hydrogen on sun, conveniently avoiding the fact its a natural element, your attempt was to ridicule my argument regarding abundance of some substance and cost related to it. That is where your style fails. It does become personal in its delivery methods. Not only you used a wrong analogy but also presented in a way that is always used when people attack each other with an arrogant sense (ultra short plus emoticons after quoting a big post - all these details matter to your style) as if "efficiently" mocking the "naivete" at the other side. As if only one line can do that, how brilliant (not!). The difference is that i never do that. Even when i strike something down effectively i take steps to protect the person this is directed towards by either adding further self critical humor or avoiding ambiguities in how caustic (smart ass) my humor it. You should pay attention to such details. It is what gets you in trouble and will never get me in trouble. But then again i am not the one that disclosed that i enjoy having my neighbors afraid/terrorized to talk to me thinking i am mad at them because of the way i have handled them before or something. You are the one playing games and eventually such games result in you being alone playing them or searching for new victims/toys because the others have had it and moved on. You think i am hurt by such tiny bs details. No i am not hurt. Bring it on, i dont mind emotionally, only logically because its an opportunity loss to choose stupid friction over something friendlier and more creative. It just gets progressively tilting, thats all. Humor must be intelligent enough to respect the intelligence of the other side too. How i respected Zeno's intelligence/mood/perception etc? By then adding all those things about publishing together (joint) a paper in some fictitious journal, that was the self mocking part of the joke.

yea sure. But can he shoot 3 pointers?


PairTheBoard

Confirmed white man can jump.

bet he could hit a jumper though.

yeaaaaah

By the way before anyone gets any ideas to try to see how high they can jump from rest think of your Achilles tendon etc before doing things that require immense sudden effort starting from not properly prepared state. Dont get in trouble (for a couple months or more) over bs things that we say here for fun.

Also homework assignment to everyone interested; Find all classes of orbits that start and end at the same point in the surface of a rotating planet (ok assume here for simplicity perfectly spherical, then you may introduce other complications later) without atmosphere. Gradually transition to those that also wind around the axis of rotation at least once.