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| Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy. |
07-28-2008, 09:48 PM
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#31
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,865
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Could you show the form of a simple 2,3, or n dimensional SDE and then provide a simple intuitive explanation of what the terms are describing in the sense of local probability flows? If so, could you give a real world example where you might think you know how the local probability should be flowing and thereby just write down the corresponding SDE to model the situation?
My thought has been that the first order term is describing the local linear drift while the second order term is describing the local shape of expansion of "point masses" of probabilty. I was never able to get a teacher to say something like this though. All I could ever get to such requests for an intuitive concept was the intricate technical definition with laborious proof of the appropriate stochastic limit to the sequence of appropriate discrete jump paths. Or something like that.
Thanks,
PairTheBoard
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07-28-2008, 10:27 PM
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#32
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enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 60
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah_blah
your answer is all i really wanted  what's your opinion of courant and UCLA for probability?
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I would have put Courant and UBC over Columbia and Stanford on Jason's original list but otherwise agree with it. Prior to hiring Berger, I would have said that UCLA was noticeably below the other schools on his list and that it didn't really have a good culture for young probabilists. Noam is both very strong and energetic, which helps, but unless you are interested in the sort of research that he and Marek do I wouldn't go there.
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07-29-2008, 12:59 AM
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#33
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Digging it outta the dirt.
Posts: 6,143
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Re: Ask a probabilist
SHELDON ROSS!!!!!!!!!
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07-29-2008, 01:21 AM
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#34
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,870
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah_blah
nifty solution -- it's better than the one i know. i want to make sure i have the details right:
X_i-X_j has the same characteristic function for all i,j, and the characteristic function determines the distribution (e.g. by the inversion formula) so P(|X_i-X_j|>\varepsilon) = 0 for all \varepsilon. is there a better way to see the first part? (e.g., without characteristic functions)
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Characteristic functions are probably as good as anything. I would have just said that the law of (X_i,X_j) (that is, the probability measure on R^2 induced by (X_i,X_j)) is just the product measure m*m, where m is the law of X_1. For each \varepsilon, there exists a Borel set A such that
P(|X_i - X_j| > \varepsilon) = P((X_i,X_j) in A) = m*m(A),
and this does not depend on i or j.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah_blah
By independence, we get that EX_1^2 = (EX_1)^2. But EX_1^2 \geq (E|X_1|)^2 by the schwarz inequality, and equality holds iff X_1 is constant a.s.
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You want to be careful here that you are not assuming the existence of any moments. You could also say that, by independence, F(x) = P(X_1 <= x) satisfies F(x) = (F(x))^2. Hence, for each x, F(x) = 0 or F(x) = 1. Since F is nondecreasing and right-continuous, there exists a constant c such that F(x) = 0 for x < c and F(x) = 1 for x >= c.
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07-29-2008, 02:06 AM
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#35
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,649
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1990
You want to be careful here that you are not assuming the existence of any moments.
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ok, now i feel silly
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07-29-2008, 02:20 AM
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#36
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 9,701
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Re: Ask a probabilist
what drew you to math as opposed say physics, engineering or computer science?
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07-29-2008, 03:35 AM
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#37
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,870
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
Could you show the form of a simple 2,3, or n dimensional SDE
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Here is a simple 2-dimensional SDE:
dX = m(X) dt + s(X) dB.
The solution, X, will be a process taking values in R^2; B is a 2-dimensional Brownian motion. The function m maps R^2 to R^2, and the function s maps a point in R^2 to a 2 x 2 matrix. The above equation is shorthand for the pair of equations
dX_1 = m_1(X) dt + s_{11}(X) dB_1 + s_{12}(X) dB_2,
dX_2 = m_2(X) dt + s_{21}(X) dB_1 + s_{22}(X) dB_2.
(Think of X, m(X), and dB as 2 x 1 column vectors; dt is a scalar; and s(X) is a 2 x 2 matrix.) In turn, these are shorthand for the integral equations
X_i(t) = X_i(0) + \int_0^t m_i(X(s)) ds
+ \int_0^t s_{i1}(X(s)) dB_1(s)
+ \int_0^t s_{i2}(X(s)) dB_2(s),
where the last two integrals are Ito integrals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
and then provide a simple intuitive explanation of what the terms are describing in the sense of local probability flows?
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I am not sure what you mean by the above term in bold. Does this refer to the way the probability density function of the solution changes with time? Under suitable assumptions on m and s, the solution X(t) has a density function f(x,t) that satisfies the Kolmogorov forward equation (also called the Fokker–Planck equation).
Personally, I do not find this to be a very intuitive way of thinking about the dynamics described by the SDE. I prefer to think about the paths of X, rather than the densities f(x,t). Informally, I would write
dX/dt = m(X) + s(X) W(t),
where W(t) = dB/dt. The "white noise" term W(t) exists only as a generalized function, but you can think of it informally as a stationary, R^2-valued process that gives an infinitesimal random push at time t to X. The push has no preferred direction and is independent of the pushes given prior to time t. The usual example is a pollen grain on the surface of still water being pushed by collisions with the surrounding water molecules.
In this case, the term m(X) gives a deterministic drift, and the term s(X) serves to modify the magnitude of the noise term and, possibly, give it a preferred direction. (Here, "direction" does not mean a vector, but a line through the origin. The modified noise term will still have mean 0.) In this sense, the term s(X) is changing the shape of the density of the noise term. But this is all completely informal. Rigorously, the noise term is not even a random variable (in the usual sense), so there is no density whose shape can change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
If so, could you give a real world example where you might think you know how the local probability should be flowing and thereby just write down the corresponding SDE to model the situation?
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There should be some nice examples in Oksendal that illustrate what I described above. If not, you should be able to cook something up yourself. Maybe you could model a pollen grain on a gently drifting pool of water whose temperature varies spatially.
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07-29-2008, 03:53 AM
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#38
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lebesgue Airlines
Posts: 15,738
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Would you rather live forever or die?
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07-29-2008, 04:18 AM
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#39
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,870
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyshade
what drew you to math as opposed say physics, engineering or computer science?
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Originally, as an undergrad, it was probably just the fact that math was what I perceived as my strongest subject. But I did always enjoy my math classes much more than any others, so I am sure that was a factor on some level.
Personally, I have a hard time understanding a lot of physicists, engineers, and computer scientists. Maybe it's the skeptic in me, but I need to see the rigor before I feel I truly understand. I had a math professor in grad school who was originally a physicist. He was an older guy and said he was considering going back into physics after all these years. He explained to us that he originally left physics for math so that he could figure out what all those physicists were actually talking about. Well, now he knew, so he was ready to return.
I also like the flexibility I have. I can work on mathematical models in any field of my choice. Not only that, I am free to play with the models in any way I like, as long as it is mathematically interesting. And all of my research can be done with a pen and paper. That I like.
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07-29-2008, 04:18 AM
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#40
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veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: placing balls into cells
Posts: 2,343
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyshade
what drew you to math as opposed say physics, engineering or computer science?
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I expect the reaction of most math people will be "lol".
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07-29-2008, 04:23 AM
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#41
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lebesgue Airlines
Posts: 15,738
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly
I expect the reaction of most math people will be "lol".
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ummmm... no
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07-29-2008, 05:08 AM
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#42
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,870
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Would you rather live forever or die?
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I've seen some Twilight Zones where the guy gets a seemingly amazing gift, then there's a twist, and the so-called gift becomes a fate worse than death. So out of risk-aversion, I think I would rather keep reality as it is and die the death I've got coming to me.
However, had you asked:
Quote:
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Would you rather be an immortal in the universe of the Highlander films, getting in all kinds of sword-fighting adventures as you wander the globe and battle the forces of darkness, or die?
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I think I'd go for it.
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07-29-2008, 06:27 AM
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#43
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 195
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Re: Ask a probabilist
This is x-post from the probability forum but it's pretty quiet so i'll try if you could answer me...
I was in a live tournament, and when the cards were being dealt one guy had his second card flip over and it was a Q. After he had been given new card, he checked them and said "i have a Q, but i dont know which of these cards was the first one, so it's 50-50 that i would've gotten a pair of queens". Now i thought his logic was false and it would be more than 50% to get the pair, as when the first cards were dealt there were four queens in the deck and on the second card only three. But i couldnt prove it better than that and have no idea where to start if i had to count the correct odds for catching the pair, so what's the best way to do it?
Thanks,
Saku
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07-29-2008, 07:11 AM
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#44
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,870
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Re: Ask a probabilist
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSakuraba
I was in a live tournament, and when the cards were being dealt one guy had his second card flip over and it was a Q. After he had been given new card, he checked them and said "i have a Q, but i dont know which of these cards was the first one, so it's 50-50 that i would've gotten a pair of queens".
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The result is correct. For simplicity, imagine that his original two cards were the top two cards in the deck, and his replacement card is the third from the top. We first learn
A = Card 2 is a Q.
Then we learn
B = Cards 1 and 3 are a Q and a non-Q, in some order.
Given A and B, we want the probability of
C = Card 1 is a Q,
which is
P(C | A and B) = P(A and B and C)/P(A and B)
= P(Q, Q, non-Q)/[P(Q, Q, non-Q) + P(non-Q, Q, Q)].
We now compute
P(Q, Q, non-Q) = (4/52)*(3/51)*(48/50), and
P(non-Q, Q, Q) = (48/52)*(4/51)*(3/50).
But both of these are just (4*3*48)/(52*51*50), so they are equal and the final answer is 1/2.
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07-29-2008, 01:07 PM
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#45
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lebesgue Airlines
Posts: 15,738
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Re: Ask a probabilist
How much physics do you know or have you tried to learn?
[It is interesting to me because I know tons of people who are interested in learning physics but do not know enough math so I am curious about people who know enough math but simply aren't that interested]
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