mcenroe used a wooden racket, federer uses a modern one, no way mcenroe beats federer if he uses a wooden racket!!

He has scored and won MOTM in 2 of the last three UEFA Champions League finals.

pekerman didn't play him lol

Do you think it was a bad desition at the time?

The world cup isnt the pinnacle of the sport anymore, the champions league is and /argument

With his pals xavi and iniesta, Maradona did it without xavi and iniesta. Do you really think Barcelona lose to Man Utd without Messi? Do you think Argentina beat England without Maradona?

Do you realize the pressure those argentinian players had before the game against England in 1986? Do you think those players slept the day before? Thats when you need the GOAT to step up and literally win the game by himself.

Im not hating on Messi, I just think comparing him to Maradona at this point of his career were he is only 24 is just ridicoulous.

yes

didnt he start saviola and then bring juan cruz off the bench when they lost to holland?

and messi and tevez both never saw the pitch?

Argentina defeated Holland fwiw. I think both Tevez and Messi played but the didnt play against Germany.

The World Cup format has changed over the years.

From 1934-1978, 16 teams participated in each tournament. In 1982 the field expanded to 24, and then 32 in 1998. You could argue Brazil's talent gap over the field in the 50s was way bigger than any country today.

It is statistically harder to win a World Cup now, without even factoring in potential differences in talent pools, etc.

A WC title would add more to Messi's case for GOAT. However, the number of championships he has won as a member of Barcelona just over the past few years is staggering. While he has been surrounded by ridiculous teammates, he has shown to be the best player every season since overtaking Ronaldinho in 07ish. Starting in 2008, Messi-led Barcelona has won 3 straight La Liga titles (when La Liga is #1/2 league in the world), 1 Spanish Cup, 2 UEFA Super Cups, 2 Club World Cups, and 2 Champions Leagues.

If he can continue collecting hardware at Barcelona and ignite one deep Argentine run in the WC, there might not be a question.

im thinking of germany game then

not for Argentina, now its easier to qualify, before the expansions Argentina didnt always play the world cup. ( although better asian, african and north american sides make it harder though).

Xavi was the better player on Barca for the majority of those championships tho. And Xavi has a WC and Euro championship to add to his belt. Xavi obv GOAT lol. Messi isn't even the best player on his team right now.

Also lol @ people calling a WC team with a Higuain/Messi/Aguero strike force mediocre.

I think we have different definitions of GOAT, in my definition being able to carry a mediocre side to winning a trophy is really really important thereby Maradona= GOAT.

Name the other 8 players

The last WC Argentina did not play in was 1970, when they failed to qualify. They played in 1966, 1962, and 1958. However, they did not play from 1938-1954 due to WWII, and other political reasons.

That is 1 modern WC that Argentina has missed, I would say it is still harder for them to win now.

thats because the other teams have gotten better not because of the format. I would also say its easier to win a 32 team world cup being seeded than a 24 team world cup not being seeded.

ps: For some reason I thought they had failed to qualify to 1974 as well.

Hungary though.

zabaleta, di maria, cambiasso, mascherano, demichelis, Garay, Milito? Its not a mediocre team. Its below the Holland, Spain, Germany tier, but its right below them.

If Messi is replaced by Bojan Krkic or Eidur Gudjohnsen on those Barca teams, do they still win the CL?

Xavi is a top 5 player in the world (imo). I know stats aren't everything, they play different positions and roles, and Xavi is older than Messi but:

Over all competitions

Xavi:

08/09 - 16 G, 34 A
09/10 - 6 G, 19 A
10/11 - 5 G, 14 A
11/12 - 10 G, 9 A

Messi:

08/09 - 42 G, 18 A
09/10 - 49 G, 11 A
10/11 - 51 G, 22 A
11/12 - 33 G, 17 A

Messi > Xavi, but Barca probably does not win all those titles without both of them

If the Argentina team is so good, why did the draw with Bolivia? Why did they lose to venezuela?
Why did they failed to beat an adult team in the copa america they hosted?
Why?

Of course maybe Sabella gets thing right, but at least their last win against Colombia wasnt exactly a masterpiece.

btw I have seen every competitive Argentina game since Sabella arrived and tbh Uruguay looks better than them right now.

I think Argentina is top 10 material but not top 5.

If you play Pedro instead of Messi yes I think they win most of those titles.

I thought Zabaleta and Cambiasso didn't play in the last WC?

Argentina
Line-up
[1] Roberto ABBONDANZIERI (GK) (-71')
[2] Roberto AYALA
[3] Juan SORIN (C)
[4] Fabricio COLOCCINI
[6] Gabriel HEINZE
[8] Javier MASCHERANO
[9] Hernan CRESPO (-79')
[10] Juan RIQUELME (-72')
[11] Carlos TEVEZ
[18] Maxi RODRIGUEZ
[22] Luis GONZALEZ
Substitute(s)
[12] Leonardo FRANCO (GK) (+71')
[23] Oscar USTARI (GK)
[5] Esteban CAMBIASSO (+72')
[7] Javier SAVIOLA
[13] Lionel SCALONI
[14] Rodrigo PALACIO
[15] Gabriel MILITO
[16] Pablo AIMAR
[17] Leandro CUFRE
[19] Lionel MESSI
[20] Julio CRUZ (+79')
[21] Nicolas BURDISSO
Coach
Jose PEKERMAN (ARG)

lol

lololololololol. I mean I love Pedro, but you can't be serious. Do you watch how many goals Messi create's out of nothing? Pedro doesn't have that.