Waitress sloots are to Tiger as hair was to Sampson. The media is Delilah.

That episode also included at least 6 weeks of no practice of any sort, probably the only time he has gone that long without putting since he was 4 years old.

I think he lost touch around the green more than anything. He hit it well enough to win at Augusta this year and the year before. He doesn't chip it as close and he doesn't make as many inside 8 feet and he doesn't lag it as well as in the past.

Now that he has kids I don't think he will ever put in the time on the practice green that he did in his 20's, which is what he heeds to do to regain his top form.

I guess I don't think he needs to regain his top form to win 4 or 5 majors over the next 10 years however

He's already the GOAT, ainec, but he wants to pass Jack to silence the haters that will continue to refer back to that one stat if he doesn't get there. It's funny because even if he gets to 17 and falls one short of Jack, there will still be people who will be like, "nope, Jack's the GOAT cuz 18 majors." Completely disregarding the fact that Tiger's current 14 majors are probably worth more than Jack's 18 after factoring in the depth of talent Tiger faces compared to what Jack faced (Jack has admitting he didn't play against near the depth Tiger has, so please spare us).

Tiger's win percentage makes Jack look like a mere mortal next to him, and even more so after factoring in strength of field.

All that said, if Tiger's knee can hang in there I think he will sacrifice some of the time he could be spending with his kids to reach his ultimate goal. He knows he's running out of time and his body can't hold up for much more than 10 years tops (and that's with an almost unavoidable 5th or 6th knee issue).

Stop it. There aren't that many haters, he's been one of the most rooted-for players in history. Regardless, he doesn't want to surpass 18 majors to silence haters, he wants to do it because IT HAS BEEN HIS PUBLICLY STATED GOAL SINCE HE BURST ON THE SCENE. He's personally established it as the benchmark, not haters or Jack fanbois.

Does everyone honestly believe it's just a coincidence that his career started going downhill and injuries started to show up exactly when pro golf started testing for steroids?

thats true, but in mass media discussion of the GOAT, it will probably just come down to 18 for Jack vs X for Tiger

Tiger wouldn't do steroids

I think Tiger is the greatest already but i think odds are he doesn't get to 19 majors, his head is way to f'd up right now

I honestly do.

I really, really hope you aren't making this argument by including the many post-prime golf tournaments in which Jack participated and had virtually no chance of winning - e.g. the Memorial every year, all the majors, and most of the other tournaments after 1981. You probably are though, which makes it completely disingenuous. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Even accounting for weaker fields, Jack's finish in majors is every bit as impressive. Just look at the run he had in the Open Championship. Between 1966 (when he won) and 1980 (T-4) Nicklaus competed in 15 Opens. The worst - THE WORST - he finished was T-6 in 1969. In that span of 15 years he had three wins and six runner-up finishes. So nine out of 15 years he either won or came in second.

Equally impressive is his record in all the majors for the 70s, easily the most dominant decade by one golfer in history:

Depends on how much you weight wins versus "mere" top 10s.

Tiger won 12 majors and had 25 top 10s from 2000 - 2009.

Jack had 8 wins, 35 top 10s in the 70s.

Also, Tiger won the money title 7 times in the 00s. Jack won the money title 5 times.

Tiger no doubt also has a lot more money shots.

Here's Tiger's 2000s for comparison



Factoring in
a) the swing change years ('03-04)
b) the 2 missed due to the knee
c) the life turmoil around that time
d) his success (Tiger) in other tournaments, as other players were winning more each year than Jack in the 70s per the graphic posted above
and e) the much deeper fields today,
I'd say you could make a pretty good case for Tiger > Jack, or at the very least Tiger = Jack.

With the fields Jack played against, as long as he didn't suck he was gonna finish top-10. Not to take anything away from Jack really because that is a crazy decade of golf

def needs more

This. 12>>>>>8.

These two are results of his own volition; I don't see why these should merit special consideration when we look at those periods in Tiger's career.

Agree, but I also think it's easier for once great putters to recover from that than it is for a guy to recover his great ball striking.

That may be Tiger's goal but that doesn't mean that's the standard we should objectively hold him to. That's terrible logic. We talk about how athletes are dumb all the time in evaluating their own sport. While Tiger doesn't fall into that category, that doesn't mean that we should judge his GOAT status at the same standards as his stated goals.

To me, Tiger's legacy will always be that of one of the most mentally tough athletes we have ever seen. That, in a sport where it is so important, combined with his dominance in the tough fields he has played in make him the GOAT to me.

I dunno if the bolded part is right or not, but it's probably not true. It was probably easier for him to finish top ten but a really long way from automatic. The fact that afaik the others of his era(s) (Palmer, Watson, Trevino, Player, Weiskopf, Miller, et al) weren't also doing it makes that claim suspect.

I also didn't include his results from the 60s, which was a whole nother decade of dominance, albeit not as consistent.

It does when you consider Tiger kicked Jack's ass with 12 majors in 8 healthy years instead of 10.

I'm looking at his sheer ability to play golf and win tournaments and nothing else, and outside factors affect that. He had his own reasons for going through a swing change, but during that time his game was clearly in pieces and wasn't a good reflection of him as a golfer in general. Same with the 1998(?) period. The life turmoil was his own making indeed, but we aren't comparing Jack and Tiger as people. The life turmoil caused him to take many months off from practicing and to use more time and energy dealing with that than focusing on golf. Jack has no personal issues or anything that I know of that would really affect his ability to play and win.

Those guys weren't as good as Jack though. Actually, looking at Jack's career he is crazy consistent, just not incredibly dynamic. Tiger is dynamic and has the ability to explode week to week, but can be pretty inconsistent.
True. It is going to be real interesting to see what Tiger does going forward.

Jack had plenty of issues afaik. Was fat, got married, was skinny, had a bunch of kids, fought injuries.

Plenty of golfers had hot flashes of golf like Tiger, it's just that his have been longer than all but one person in the modern era. E.g. during his time David Duval and Vijay were certainly better than he was for measurable stretches.

Also, if you're just going to try to suggest his slumps somehow don't count against him then you're engaging in Enron math. His non-winning times are as much a "reflection of him as a golfer" as the good times were.

You don't think the most recent episodes have even somewhat diminished this claim?

LDO this is major recency bias alert, but when I think of Tiger now, I think of tantrums on course, spitting on greens, falling apart against Y.E. Yang at the PGA and more or less acting like a huge prima donna. That doesn't scream mental toughness to me.

Earlier in his career, sure. He was a beast.

you got to be pretty mentally tough to have all your bitches organized around the country to **** while still dominating on the golf course all the while not getting caught by your wife. Doubt Jack went out and juggled all that strange pussy while winning his majors. So basically

Tiger > Jack

I do love the idea that Jack raising a family without all the benefits of private jets and an army personal handlers/assistants was some easy thing. Tiger's found out just how hard it is to try and raise a family/be there for your kids while being on the road....and its way easierfor him to be on the road than it was for Jack.

All this is moot though....if Tiger gets right and passes Jack, he's the undisputed goat. But he's got more than a busted leg to fix, he's got a shattered psyche.

My gut is he gets close and may even get there but its farrrrrrr from a lock.