I'm not saying Sturridge was THE reason for our bad start to the season, just that I believe with how he currently is as a player, we're a better side with him sat on the bench.

The differences have been the switch to 4-2-3-1, the inclusion of Mikel and Kalou and the omission of Sturridge.

Bosingwa looked a Conference player with Sturridge playing in front of him. With Ramires in front of him his performances have improved just because he isn't as exposed. The same can be said for Cole on the other side, as Kalou is a more willing tracker than Mata was in the 4-3-3 also.

Drogba and Torres have both improved since Sturridge has been out of the side as well because they now know if they make moves they will get the ball rather than watch Sturridge turn the same defender numerous times before cutting in to shoot.

He's out of the side for a reason and that reason is that while he will score goals, his overall contribution to the side is a negative one and will remain so unless he changes his ways.

He's so wasteful and greedy. Dropping him was the best thing that happened for Chelsea this season.

langer, you're still not noting the more over-riding difference in play: the axing of AVB and switch to RDM with a system that suited the playing staff better. I know you're a big AVB fan, but he clearly failed at chelsea this year and was putting square pegs into round holes

The squarest of which was Sturridge, I agree.

but you'd like A Johnson and £10m for him?

lol

He crosses the whole field in 8 steps and 10 seconds and then scores, he also scored some from freekicks and he's a great header.

I agree with Tollie that Verthongen is good enough for every elite team, even Barca.

He was very clear in alot of interviews that he wanted to go to the PL though and he visited 2 Spurs games. Rumour is that he's waiting for the CL final and if Bayern wins (and Spurs go to CL) he signs.

But I guess that if barca calls he might reconsider....

Even with Sturridge at his most selfish you are much more likely to receive the ball from him than Kalou who will just kick it to the opposition.

The only reason Kalou has been preferred is for defensive reasons. As RDM likes the 2 wide players in the front 3 to drop deeper and Sturridge is admittedly not so adept at that. If we are talking contribution in the final 3rd Kalou is no comparison to Sturridge who is much more effective.

Torres is scoring more goals because of man management by RDM and Drogba is still just being Drogba, playing well in huge games and still mailing it in in the league.

There are so many reasons why we have improved with the leaving of AVB, you are still claiming the central one is the dropping of Sturridge. Ridiculous. For all we know the improvement would have been even bigger if Sturridge had not been dropped.

Between September and December Sturridge was one of our best players (not too difficult) but had a serious drop in form that coincided with the team playing like turd for 3 months. His best game was in our win against City and I admit I get frustrated with him but he'll learn. The reason he has been dropped is more down to how RDM wants us to play and he can't yet be trusted sitting deeper or in any big games at this stage of the season. Much of his selfishness comes down to eagerness to impress but overall I think he's done well enough and I'm optimistic that he'll come good. I really consider this his first season and selling him is absurd.

I don't think this is fair on me or Langerdang at all. Neither of us were attributing Chelsea's awful start to the season to Sturridge. I assume Lander was of the opinion that he isn't good enough for Chelsea (which I agree with) and his incredibly selfish play was hurting the team greatly during that time.

Agree and agree, not sure what we're arguing about. He's been dropped because it's an overall better team without him in it right now.

The only thing I would say is that (and I hope it's something he'll mature out of) the impression I have of Sturridge is that if we lose 3-2 and he's scored both our goals, he's going home quite happy in a "I done my job" kind of way.

No.

In face of the fact that Sturridge scored the same goals as Drogba and Torres combined and it turns out has the same amount of assists as Drogba and Torres combined which of course makes the idea of loaning him out retarded, Langer suggested that he only achieved this by somehow sabotaging the whole team making the cold stone facts of his contribution irrelevant (which was his debating tactic trying to cover the retarded loan idea) and was thus responsible for its poor showing in the league, which is evinced by the huge turn around since he has been dropped. One of the biggest correlation = causation fallacies ever on this forum.

The fact is that the poor showing was due to a poorly implemented tactical system that did not fit our personnel (all of them, not just Sturridge) and massive player de motivation. The two things rectified by RDM which led to
the improvement under RDM.

Again the idea that we should loan out one of our most talented youth players after there break through season is beyond stupid and even its suggestion make me angry. Its also worth pointing out that the majority of the situations that Sturridge is selfish in are situations he has created himself via his many talents as a footballer.

I like how you keep calling "the loan idea" retarded when you're the only person to even mention the word loan.

Oh wow my mistake, you actually want to sell him. Even more retarded.

If he can adapt his game and become a team player while playing wide then i'd be all for keeping him. Sadly I just don't see that happening. As he is now, I don't see him offering what i'd like a winger to offer.

He seems insistent that his career will be as a central striker (said so in basically every single interview he's done in the last 18 months) and i'm not convinced he's got the attributes to the the main focal point of a top class attack either.

So yes, i'd rather move him on and replace him with a winger who is happy doing what a winger should do.

Never been convinced by De Laet, think Championship may be his level.

I've seen James on less than a handful of occasions so can't really pass comment.