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What I meant by that is that imo The Wire tried to achieve things and tell stories in a way that traditional TV shows didn't. I called it "literary" because it was actually making critiques about our culture much in the way that a novel does and most TV shows don't. Breaking Bad, as you said, is tremendously well executed, but at the same time it's still not quite as groundbreaking to me as The Wire was because it's mostly just doing the typical TV model but with a bit more flair and more complex characters.

That said, I don't think The Wire is flawless or anything, and in general I kind of abhor the "GOAT SHOW OMG" phenomenon that happens in TV discussions now, which is part of why I made my first post about this. It's annoying when people are always super defensive about their favorite shows and then we never actually end up discussing them in an interesting way.

Well, duh. There aren't many comparable things between BB and The Wire outside of both are TV shows and high quality. I kind of agree that much of the supporting players in BB are not as compelling as they could be; the strength of the show is the plotting and camera work as someone said earlier, I agree with that statement entirely. Take Walt Jr, for instance, he's been part of the show since the beginning but I don't feel that I know much about him that I didn't after a couple episodes. I feel like his character should be much more fleshed out aorn, same goes for most of them.

Not sure why I wrote penultimate. I meant final. You aren't an intelligent person if you couldn't pick up on the point I was making.

meh, i don't really care about Flynn, and i don't really feel like i'm missing anything by not knowing more about him. i doubt there's much to say really. i'm glad they didn't try to force some more storylines involving him just for the hell of it, like most shows tend to do in similar spots.

The show has always only been about one person, so I don't discredit it really for stuff like this*. You could argue it gives more insight into how little Walt's son has been a part of his world since we, the viewer, have entered it. His central importance to the story is in Walt's cause and motivation; backstory on how he attained "Flynn" would serve 0 purpose for the show.

*Meanwhile, stuff like the Marie klepto subplot really does suck because it serves more as a function of plotting than character development, and fails lazily at both.

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otoh omar knowing about greek myths sorta came out of nowhere

If we were to stack the characters from each show who would be considered more than 1-dimensional, the wire would have more than twice as many as BB.

I'm curious, as I haven't watched much of it, if The Sopranos follows Tony more similarly to the way BB follows Walt, or Mad Men follows Don?

I've always imagined it as more of an ensemble piece.

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the sopranos is very much tony soprano's story in the same sense that BB is walter white's.

just because they attempt to make characters deeper in BB doesn't mean they succeed. Characters in the wire mostly feel like real people, characters in BB feel like they're part of a TV show.

I'm not saying more storylines for him at all. You can flesh out a more fully realized character with significantly less screen time. Obv BB is a show driven by one character doesn't mean you can't flesh everyone out better.

In The Corner which was written by Brooks and Simon, its described how the one unit in the worst Baltimore middle schools every year where the kids actually pay attention is when they study Greek mythology.

In the show, yes, its out of nowhere, but assuming they didn't just make that up in the book, it fits perfectly.

The big difference to me is that I always felt like The Wire writers really cared about most of the show's characters, while on Breaking Bad they feel more like pieces in a plot machine.

How do y'all feel about BB's use of background music?

I've always liked it (it played a big role in the eliteness of "Crawl Space"), but this was the first episode during which truly annoyed me. That burst of distorted noise that played at ~3:30 as Walt was creeping through his house felt unsubtle and manipulative. I was like, "Okay, I get it, I'm supposed to feel tense here. Increasingly tense! Thanks for the heads-up!"

Was wondering what the collective opinion about it is--both throughout the series and in this week's episode.

It's still not the right word, though I won't belabor the point any further.

This so much. Along with the whole "X >>> Y and if you don't think so you're a ****ing moron" mode of 'criticism', nothing is so quick to torpedo discussions into aggro volleys of inanity.

Oh yeah, House of Cards is a great show. Most of the surface-level "statements" it's making are silly and caricaturized, but the meta-level ones I suspect it's toying around with are pretty sweet imo.

can someone explain the objections to Marie's klepto storyline, bc i don't think i'm really getting it

idk, i feel like almost all of the characters on The Wire are paper thin. they have like 1 thing they do, and they do it because of society/institutions, they're slaves to that (save for the few rebels). most of "bad" characters aren't really bad, they're just driven by the system/their environment. we don't know a great deal about most of the characters otherwise, their backstories serve little purpose. most of the characters don't change, some are ruined by society/institutions.

but idk, feel free to list all the incredibly complex and fully developed characters from TW for fun and let's see.

i think those 3 shows are similar in the way that the main character is the primary focus. they all dominate the show quite a bit.

everyone knows THE O.C is the greatest show of all time

which characters don't feel genuine in BB?

but there is no "interesting way to discuss it." comparing a show with an ensemble cast so deep that the main character was barely aired for a full season to a show that revolves almost entirely around a single character is like comparing michael jordan to peyton manning

you compare the wire against boardwalk empire or lost, you compare breaking bad against the sopranos

Marie at no point comes across as having any positive traits.

Hank at not point comes across as someone who could actually have a successful career as a DEA agent.

There are characters who fit in perfectly when the show wasn't in GOAT DRAMA mode (Badger, Skinny Pete, Saul Goodman) but who take away from the show's credibility when it tries to be serious.

Gtfo with the Saul hate. He's shown many times he's a very competent lawyer.

I don't hate Saul, his character fit in perfectly when BB had more comedic elements and wasn't trying so hard to be GOAT DRAMA.

Yeah Saul fits in. But, I do feel you on having the methheads having lol nerd debates seeming dishonest.

As my man Jean-Sol Partre famously wrote: "hell is people comparing The Wire and Breaking Bad ad infinitum."

The comedic element of BB was always strong, it's still there but not like it was in the past. Yeah Saul has been elite.