I like Breaking Bad but have similar issues with the characters. Walt is obv awesome, but Jesse (until like an episode ago) has been a one-dimensional passive character who just spews catch-phrases and memes -- every attempt they've made to add "complexity" to his character has just involved a loved one dying and then him crying about it because he's a REAL HUMAN with FEELINGS who CARES. Hank and Marie are decent supporting characters, but they can't carry the load when expected to be the main enemies of Walt this season. The show wants me to root against Walt, but I really can't because I have no investment in any of the other characters.

Breaking Bad is more of a stylistic, entertaining plot-driven show imo, which is fine. I think people who are into "great TV" naturally want to compare it to The Wire, but the shows just aren't remotely comparable to me. The Wire was just far more ambitious, complex, and literary, while Breaking Bad is just another (very good) TV show.

^ couldnt agree more. Breaking Bad is one of the best, but you have to be the GOAT, to take on the GOAT.

nicely put

well said, rat.

The Wire was just such a deep show that covered so many characters, themes and plot lines. It's hard to go up against that.

This reminds me of that whole "The Wire is novelistic!" angle of praise, and as someone for whom the defining characteristics of novel-ness have always been interiority and language, it's always struck me as pretty weird. If anything, long-form motion picture is a hell of a lot better suited to the (easily digestible) portrayal of intricate systems than the literary forms are. The most common line of comparison is the multi-dimensionality of the characters, sure, but for such a wide-net adjective as 'novelistic' that comparison covers only a tiny stretch of novel-specific territory.

I'd sooner buy that The Wire is "like" a form-genre pairing that hasn't quite been codified yet and is (currently) sui generis.

I love the **** out of BB but I kind of agree with your first paragraph, and think opinions of it will probably fade a bit in the next few years. Still, things that make me feel emotions have been increasingly hard to find in recent years (), so my #1 spot will always give preference to whatever's most entertaining.

ok. did you actually enjoy the marie being a klepto storyline? do you know anyone who did?

don't worry. i'll leave quickly so you can continue the BB circle jerk.

Sarcastic Rat > me at saying what needs to be said

It had a point and it paid off. Why don't you try to make a case it wasn't good rather than just appeal to anecdotes and tautology?

its possible the wire is the GOAT and still the most overrated thing ever on 2p2. im genuinely curious if people just like feel smarter talking about how "intellectual" and "ambitious" it was or what? and then call breaking bad "just another very good tv show"?

there are plenty of things the wire was amazing at that breaking bad cant touch (mainly the wire had a huge, diverse cast of well developed/acted characters) but there's things BB does better too. for example- BB is arguably the best shot show ever, the camera work and cinematography is incredible. the way certain scenes are lit, the angle they shoot them from, everything matters on this show. id like to think that most shows try and do things like this, but no one, not even the wire, came close to doing it as effectively.

we'll have to wait and see how well the quality of the total package compares, but to act like the wire is some piece of artistic genius while breaking bad is just another in a group of 2nd tier shows is insane to me.

can most networks afford the wire cast? really gotta dumb a show down if you're pitching it to 98% of channels.

Does anyone actually buy Hank Schroeder as a DEA agent?

I mean, despite being a bit annoying, it was fine the first few seasons where he's somewhat of a comic relief figure and all, but jesus christ, putting him out there as the penultimate opponent of Walt is just absurd.

I especially like all those fancy hard-cover books they showed him and Marie owning in the latest episode. Does anyone buy that his character has ever actually read a book or even care if others think he has?

I feel like the writers for the show are in over their head trying to make BB the GOAT drama when it wasn't ever built to be that through the first few seasons.

A greater proportion of craft discussion in these threads would be great.

Don't judge a book by its cover!

What the **** does "penultimate opponent of Walt mean"??

Are you asking if he's the "second-to-last" opponent of Walt. I guess that no, I don't buy hank as that as I have no clue what that means.

the acting and character development was better in The Wire than BB? wat

i mean the size of the cast alone meant that the vast majority of the characters were completely 1-dimensional, with little to no backstory / development / etc because of how little screen time each of them got. and many of the regulars were not trained actors or very experienced, many of them were not great. but in a lot of cases that gave them more of an authentic quality given the subject matter i think, but if you really watch it closely for the acting, there are a lot of not great performances imo. i would disagree pretty strongly that the acting and character development are better on TW.

but the shows don't make for a great comparison. at SRat said, The Wire is more "ambitious & complex" because the scope is different. BB isn't setting out to make statements about society and institutions, the bulk of it is a dedicated to the study of one character (ok, and a few others too). maybe comparing it to The Sopranos makes more sense.

The next-to-last opponent of Walt, with the last one presumably being Walt Jr.

good question!

FLYNN

i hate hate hate hateddddddddd mcnulty

the wire's probably a better overall show but anyone who thinks it was better acted than breaking bad is just wrong

edit: i say probably and won't argue with anyone who thinks it is but i don't think it is

I don't really get that at all.

It isn't even the most well-shot show on its network.

That said, I love Breaking Bad and think it is one of the best shows on TV, but I think it has more in common with, like, peak-era LOST than something like The Wire. That's just kind of the experience I have while viewing it.

The show basically always executes its ideas at an extremely high level, but the ideas themselves aren't always up to par.

true

The kleptomaniac plot-line wasn't remotely necessary for Hank to receive Gale's notes. TBH, I'd completely forgot there was a connection between the two.

Its as if they planned all along on her kleptomania becoming relevant at some point and then said **** it and brought it back in a way where it has no importance beyond being referenced.

This is absolutely true. But going down that road would only illustrate the silliness of comparing things using nothing but less than and greater than symbols and the word "GOAT", which I don't think SE is ready for.

wait so now BB haters are circle-jerking itt?

what is this ****

I haven't the faintest idea what point you are trying to make. From the start of the show on D'Angelo is shown to be a guy who is smarter/not-as-evil as one would think based on his arrests and also someone quite capable of introspection.

If you are referencing something else I apologize.