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SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)

07-24-2017 , 01:44 AM
This is just another manifestation of the right's fetish for the idea of personal responsibility I guess. You can always handwave away any systemic problem by reducing it to the level of the individual. There's no opioid epidemic in the US, only a collection of weak-minded people who don't have enough personal responsibility to bootstrap themselves off the pills. No problem with cop shootings, just an ever-expanding collection of cops who measure low on the personalresponsometer. No structural racism, black people just need to work harder. And so on, and so forth.
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07-24-2017 , 01:46 AM
Losing all: u r dum, and as such should stop talking in public

no offense
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07-24-2017 , 01:47 AM
It also ties into arrested development re: juvenile hero worship.
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07-24-2017 , 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
I don't know why you're asking him this, his lack of insight is only surpassed by his indifference.

Giving a platform to all this hard-line, right-wing, water-carrying is growing tedious imo.
Well I'm a bit stumped myself and there's no wrong in brainstorming. This chick being an over-the-top peacenick caricature seems like it might be a bit disarming (well, not that night but you know what I mean).
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07-24-2017 , 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
This is just another manifestation of the right's fetish for the idea of personal responsibility I guess. You can always handwave away any systemic problem by reducing it to the level of the individual. There's no opioid epidemic in the US, only a collection of weak-minded people who don't have enough personal responsibility to bootstrap themselves off the pills. No problem with cop shootings, just an ever-expanding collection of cops who measure low on the personalresponsometer. No structural racism, black people just need to work harder. And so on, and so forth.

Post something idiotic, get called, strawman strawman strawman
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07-24-2017 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holliday
Well I'm a bit stumped myself and there's no wrong in brainstorming. This chick being an over-the-top peacenick caricature seems like it might be a bit disarming (well, not that night but you know what I mean).
I'm guessing this guy was like the driving instructor that's always hovering over that second brake.

YOU JUST NEVER KNOW

That guy always ends up tapping it unnecessarily.
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07-24-2017 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
It also ties into arrested development re: juvenile hero worship.

"I mean cops are mostly fat idiots"


Another mensa candidate


Development Arrested
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07-24-2017 , 01:57 AM
That's a similar deprecating preface to one that most Trump voters give.

But then:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losing all
Botoh a special forces dude could kill hundreds of gang bangers and drunk hillbillies before one landed a lucky shot. So maybe you're FOS??
SUPERHUMAN HERO
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07-24-2017 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perhaps Shimmy
While the enforcers of law, and those given power by citizens, need to be held to a higher moral standard than those citizens, you also need to be careful when prosecuting police. That is, the punishment can't be results oriented so that it won't discourage officers from using force in the correct situations in the future.
If cops were merely head to the self defense standards of common citizens, it would be a huge improvement. They are not, and common citizens routinely get far too much deference when it comes to self defense.
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07-24-2017 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
That's a similar deprecating preface to one that most Trump voters give.

But then:



SUPERHUMAN HERO

Nah, just highly trained killers. and of course you have no issue whatsoever with Chris's brilliant analysis that he pulled from his ass that my post was responding to.
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07-24-2017 , 02:01 AM
I found this story from 2015:

Quote:
In 74 percent of all fatal police shootings, the individuals had already fired shots, brandished a gun or attacked a person with a weapon or their bare hands, according to an analysis of actions immediately preceding the shootings, which draws on reports from law enforcement agencies and local media coverage. These 595 cases include fatal shootings that followed a wide range of violent crimes, including shootouts, stabbings, hostage situations, carjackings and assaults.

Another 16 percent of the shootings came after incidents that did not involve firearms or active attacks but featured other potentially dangerous threats. These shootings were most commonly of individuals who brandished knives and refused to drop them.

The 5 percent of cases that are often second-guessed include individuals who police said failed to follow their orders, made sudden movements or were accidentally shot. In another 4 percent of cases, The Post was unable to determine the circumstances of the shootings because of limited information or ongoing investigations.
How is "brandishing knives" a reason to kill someone? This is kind of the nub of the problem. We're talking here about stuff like this (warning, graphic shooting, section of interest starts about 1:00). While it's unclear whether the man ended up lunging at police, what is clear is that police tactics did not include any attempt to de-escalate the situation or to use non-lethal weapons. Here are a couple of different takes on this video:

Quote:
Police tactical experts disagreed Tuesday over whether two Dallas officers acted properly last year when they fatally shot a mentally ill man who was holding a screwdriver.

“They did an absolutely perfect job,” said Keith Wenzel, a retired Dallas Police Department trainer, adding he would show students the video of the shooting as an example of good tactics.

But another police instructor said she planned to use the video to teach students what not to do.

“It’s the worst thing I’ve ever seen in my life,” said Cecile Tebo, the former commander of the New Orleans Police Department’s Crisis Intervention Team. “That was handled very poorly.”
I think that video is actually a pretty good litmus test for what you think about police in the US. Is what is depicted in that video fine and dandy, or not? If not, isn't it a huge problem that a police trainer said it's A+ work?
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07-24-2017 , 02:02 AM
I'd also note that the 74% of "justified" fatal shootings are frequently justified on the basis of police accounts of what happened, which as I mentioned earlier are almost invariably self-serving.
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07-24-2017 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losing all
You guys keep coming back with this same crap, you tell me why? Assuming this cop was a white, a dirty white, that kinda rules out the usual stuff in this case, right?
Because it doesn't happen to this extent in any other country where law enforcement carry guns. There's something systemic happening in the US, whether it be racism, lack of proper training, lack of negative consequences, lack of oversight from an official body at a federal level, or some combination of all of that.
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07-24-2017 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazooka87
Because it doesn't happen to this extent in any other country where law enforcement carry guns. There's something systemic happening in the US, whether it be racism, lack of proper training, lack of negative consequences, lack of oversight from an official body at a federal level, or some combination of all of that.
Just so we don't have to trudge through the whole argument, he's going to respond to that by saying that citizens in the US are far more heavily armed. The counter to this is that the 25% of shootings which were done for things like "brandishing knives" is still vastly higher than other countries.
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07-24-2017 , 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Just so we don't have to trudge through the whole argument, he's going to respond to that by saying that citizens in the US are far more heavily armed. The counter to this is that the 25% of shootings which were done for things like "brandishing knives" is still vastly higher than other countries.

Nah, he's mostly right. It doesn't really answer why that cop shot that lady for no apparent reason, but whatever at this point.
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07-24-2017 , 02:31 AM
This is a good twitter thread on what's going to happen with healthcare this coming week. I'm not sure if twitter threads link well here, wish the guy would just write it in a couple paragraphs:


https://twitter.com/benwikler/status/889288933414187008
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07-24-2017 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazooka87
Because it doesn't happen to this extent in any other country where law enforcement carry guns. There's something systemic happening in the US, whether it be racism, lack of proper training, lack of negative consequences, lack of oversight from an official body at a federal level, or some combination of all of that.
I'd add systemic stigma of mental health issues and healthcare problems related to such (25% of people killed by police had mental health issues).

Losing All, multiple people have cited the stats at you of police shootings. These people read these stats and become informed before posting in here. Just once, I wish you could even pretend to do the same.
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07-24-2017 , 12:42 PM
WWID???

(what would Iceland do)
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07-24-2017 , 01:13 PM
Kushner stepping down

Have fun in jail

Edit: lol maybe not. What an lol speech. Hes so nervous.
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07-24-2017 , 02:14 PM
In a normal world shouldn't Trump going hard at Jefferson Beauregard Sessions give pause to the rest of the GOP? If even being a loyal Trump slappie doesn't save you from his wrath, doesn't that eliminate any reason for most of them to be loyal to Trump?
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07-24-2017 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEb
In a normal world shouldn't Trump going hard at Jefferson Beauregard Sessions give pause to the rest of the GOP? If even being a loyal Trump slappie doesn't save you from his wrath, doesn't that eliminate any reason for most of them to be loyal to Trump?
Nah. Literally the only factor they weigh is if they'll get primaried or not if they oppose Trump.
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07-24-2017 , 02:21 PM
Amendment by freedom caucus to basically eliminate CBO
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07-24-2017 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty
Amendment by freedom caucus to basically eliminate CBO
This is such indefensible, evil bull****. Just lol at anyone who has ever voted for a Republican in the last ~20 years. Legitimately haven't met a single Republican I actually respect
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07-24-2017 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty
Amendment by freedom caucus to basically eliminate CBO
Link?
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07-24-2017 , 05:15 PM
From TheHill.com:

Meadows: CBO should downsize, aggregate think tank reports

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/34...bo-budget-cuts
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