Scottish Football/Soccer Containment Thread

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

I'd just like to remind fatshaft that the Packers are a regional market team, which more or less taps into the entire state of Wisconsin for their merchandising and advertising revenues. That includes a rather sizeable metropolitan area like Greater Milwaukee. That's pretty significant market exclusivity.

Population of Wisconsin: 5.6 million
Population of Scotland: 5.2 million

Population of Europe: 300 million
Population of USA: 300 million

(roughly, can't be arsed checking exactly, but you've made my point for me.)

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy

How is it absolute drivel? The old days are gone. No longer can you become champions of Europe with players brought up within 20 miles of the stadium. You are harking back to the old days with absolutely no suggestions for the future or even given what is going on now context. Those days are gone.

As for how well Scottish football was doing, again, no country the size of Scotland that might have been doing well then are anything like as competitive now as they were then. Not a solely Scottish problem. Think of a country with a population similar to Scotland with a clearly superior domestic league + teams?

Originally Posted by kingweed

Aberdeen and Dundee United had good home grown talent coming through. That isn't happening anymore...That is one of the issues.

Is the TV money split equally no matter where the team finishes? Or is their a greater reward for winning the league?

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

This is bang on.

How far back do you need to go to find a European final where all starters involved were domestic players?

So you are all agreeing then, finance, and by finance I mean the massive TV money has totally ****ed up football?

[Ra_Z_Boy]

Originally Posted by fatshaft

Population of Europe: 300 million
Population of USA: 300 million

(roughly, can't be arsed checking exactly, but you've made my point for me.)

Number of professional American football teams:

Number of professional football clubs in Europe:

Fill in the blanks.

Have tv finances ruined football? There are positives and negatives to modern finances but much should be done to increase parity. I loathe to give a yes or no answer to a complex topic but more harm has been done than good for the game overall probably.

[Geddy Lee]

Originally Posted by fatshaft

So you are all agreeing then, finance, and by finance I mean the massive TV money has totally ****ed up football?

And are you still refusing to acknowledge what's been said all along, which is the fact that this was an inevitable result?

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

And are you still refusing to acknowledge what's been said all along, which is the fact that this was an inevitable result?

Who said it wasn't an inevitable result? My opening post on the subject was to laugh at idiots like Rednapp waffling on about the poor quality of Scottish players, it has eff all to do with that, or poor Scottish coaches (have a look round the EPL Harry, then talk again about Scottish coaches), and everything to do with money, and particualrly the way SKY has changed the game throughout Europe.

[Amru]

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

This is bang on.

How far back do you need to go to find a European final where all starters involved were domestic players?

Probably all the way back to Celtic in 1967. Even the steaua bucharest and red star belgrade teams that won the european cup didn't consist of entirely domestic players.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Amru

Probably all the way back to Celtic in 1967. Even the steaua bucharest and red star belgrade teams that won the european cup didn't consist of entirely domestic players.

So not Aberdeen in 1983 then?

[sethypooh21]

Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy

Not applicable. Football does not have anything remotely in place like American sports to artificially enforce parity pretty much.

Maybe it should? Maybe it isn't feasible, but I personally find sports more interesting when pure spending power isn't point A1 in determining team quality. Yes "big" clubs are always going to have advantages, but there is no particular (sporting, EU and legal issues are another thing) reason to have a system in which the returns to more cash are so great. Gridiron football is a fine example of what I'm talking about - sure the cowboys have some advantages, but in the end, quality of management is far more important. Obviously, the level of revenue sharing and other competitive balances in place in the NFL won't work in football for myriad reasons, but I think it's foolish to dismiss the idea of doing SOMETHING to redress the balance out of hand.

[Geddy Lee]

There's a little thing called the NFL Draft that goes a long way in establishing parity in that league.

North American pro sports regulates the entry of young players via allocation in drafts. Too many leagues and no distinct heirarchical structure means that would never work in European football. Perhaps each FA could regulate that for domestic youth players, but not for international transfers.

[Ra_Z_Boy]

Sky TV money domestically is already shared more evenly than in nearly every other big league in Europe, far more balanced than La Liga for example. There are also parachute payments etc.

What part of the American system could be instilled in football? Certainly not the draft system, so that leaves things like salary caps etc.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy

Sky TV money domestically is already shared more evenly than in nearly every other big league in Europe, far more balanced than La Liga for example. There are also parachute payments etc.

What part of the American system could be instilled in football? Certainly not the draft system, so that leaves things like salary caps etc.

What bollocks again. While the sums are smal compared to England or SPain I grant you, the ugly sisters hoover up nealry all of the cash. Evenly shared my hairy bumhole.

[Ra_Z_Boy]

I was talking about PL money.

In the SPL there is such a pitiful amount of money, that is the whole problem.

Also I didn't say evenly shared, I said more evenly shared.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by sethypooh21

Maybe it should? Maybe it isn't feasible, but I personally find sports more interesting when pure spending power isn't point A1 in determining team quality. Yes "big" clubs are always going to have advantages, but there is no particular (sporting, EU and legal issues are another thing) reason to have a system in which the returns to more cash are so great. Gridiron football is a fine example of what I'm talking about - sure the cowboys have some advantages, but in the end, quality of management is far more important. Obviously, the level of revenue sharing and other competitive balances in place in the NFL won't work in football for myriad reasons, but I think it's foolish to dismiss the idea of doing SOMETHING to redress the balance out of hand.

ManU 8 - 2 Arseholes
Spurs 1 - 5 Man City
Barca 5 - 0 Villareal
Zaragoza 0 6 Real 6

Football isn't broken eh? Well some would have you believ that in general, mainly apologists from SKY and those on their payroll, or involved in La Liga & the EPL. For many years the SPLSFA have ran football in this country in exactly the same way as UEFA now run Europe, ie ignore the rest as long as the big two are pandered to. It's not just Scotland that this si coming home to roost, but in England and Spain too. noticeably in Germany, where the fans have a far greater say, and pull, the game is markedly different.

There is no reason whatsoever that the rule book couldn't be torn up and a fresh look taken at the game, it happened to the NFL in the 60s, it happened when the abortion that is the Champions League replaced the old European Cup, so the precedent is there, the product is failing, adapt or die. Football needs smaller teams and fans, or else those teams die, and you're left with nothing.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy

I was talking about PL money.

In the SPL there is such a pitiful amount of money, that is the whole problem.

Also I didn't say evenly shared, I said more evenly shared.

wrong thread then

[Ra_Z_Boy]

I thought we had moved on to a more general argument about the state of football rather than focusing on specifically the SPL, because as you point out this isn't some sort of Scottish only problem. It's the same thing everywhere in Europe.

What would be your solutions though? Everything I think of is completely unrealistic or unfeasible. Even if starting from scratch.