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| Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events. |
09-16-2007, 12:45 PM
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#16
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 30,441
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
They were up by 11. Instead of taking the 99% chance of going ahead by 12, they went for 2 to go up by 13. Mack Brown=not smart.
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09-16-2007, 12:47 PM
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#17
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 25,026
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
They were up by 11. Instead of taking the 99% chance of going ahead by 12, they went for 2 to go up by 13. Mack Brown=not smart.
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Ok, yeah, thats not what I thought was going on. I'm really not retarded, I just cant read.
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09-16-2007, 12:53 PM
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#18
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It's the other way
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 26,718
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
There will be literally dozens of terrible punts on like 4th and 3 from the 41 today, so rather than bump the thread each time, I'll just say that the average football coach is remarkably incompetent at a fairly significant part of his job and that bothers me.
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09-17-2007, 10:57 PM
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#19
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: splashing
Posts: 7,150
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
MNF. Wash up 10-6 and threatening inside the 10 yardline. Andy Reid has the choice of accepting a penalty and making it 3rd and 7 or declining and making it 4th and 2. He accepts. Why the F would he accept when their aim at this point is to hold Wash to a field goal?
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09-17-2007, 11:23 PM
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#20
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Correct, as usual.
Posts: 11,654
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Cubs vs. Reds
Bottom 9th, Cubs just tied the game, have a runner on 3rd, no outs. Reds intentionally walk Daryle Ward then DON'T intentionally walk DeRosa to load the bases and setup a force at home. Because that double play will be beneficial, you know.
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09-17-2007, 11:28 PM
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#21
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,336
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
MNF. Wash up 10-6 and threatening inside the 10 yardline. Andy Reid has the choice of accepting a penalty and making it 3rd and 7 or declining and making it 4th and 2. He accepts. Why the F would he accept when their aim at this point is to hold Wash to a field goal?
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you can't decline false starts
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09-17-2007, 11:34 PM
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#22
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 25,026
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.
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09-17-2007, 11:35 PM
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#23
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Looking forward to AA
Posts: 14,037
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
If there are < 10 mins left, then yes, go for 2. Of course.
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09-17-2007, 11:37 PM
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#24
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
If there are < 10 mins left, then yes, go for 2. Of course.
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But they don't, they almost always wait to go for two on the second TD. At least thats my recollection, possibly confirmation bias.
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09-17-2007, 11:37 PM
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#25
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veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,613
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.
4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.
Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.
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09-17-2007, 11:41 PM
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#26
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 25,026
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.
4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.
Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.
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Well, you have to deprecate that a bit. Say they are 75% to convert, and only 50% to make the figgie. On that 75% of the time they convert, how many times do they then go on to win? More than half, probably, but maybe not WAY more than half.
Obviously there is some combination of percentages that tips it in favor of going for it, but it is probably pretty close.
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09-17-2007, 11:44 PM
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#27
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Passyunk
Posts: 20,166
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
Quote:
SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.
4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.
Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.
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Well, you have to deprecate that a bit. Say they are 75% to convert, and only 50% to make the figgie. On that 75% of the time they convert, how many times do they then go on to win? More than half, probably, but maybe not WAY more than half.
Obviously there is some combination of percentages that tips it in favor of going for it, but it is probably pretty close.
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Yah but a FG doesn't win - it puts you up 2 with a minute left where a FG can beat you.
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09-18-2007, 12:54 AM
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#28
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 21,422
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.
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Not quite what you're saying but I think Nebraska waiting to go for it in the 1984 Orange Bowl is one of the biggest coaching mistakes ever.
Here's a description ( link)
Quote:
On their first drive of the second half Nebraska was able to tie the score 17-17 on a 34 yard Scott Livingston field goal. But Miami responded with a strong attack. Within a five minute span Miami scored two more touchdowns to regain the lead 31-17.
On the next Husker drive Heisman Trophy winner Mike Rozier left the game with a badly bruised ankle, leaving Nebraska looking for a hero.
Nebraska found their hero in Jeff Smith. Smith took the spotlight in the fourth quarter when he rushed for 99 yards and two touchdowns. The key touchdown came on a 24 yard run with only :24 seconds left in the game making the score Miami 31-Nebraska 30.
Nebraska coach Tom Osborne said later he never debated the decision he made next. A one point PAT and a tie game would have given Nebraska the National Championship, but Osborne went for the win with a two point conversion attempt.
Turner Gill took the snap from center and rolled out five steps to his right. He fired the ball towards Jeff Smith just inside the goal line. Hurricane defender Kenny Calhoun stretched out his arm and tipped the ball away and the Hurricanes claimed their first National Championship.
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Osborne gets a lot of credit for going for the win even if it cost him a shot at the national title. I don't have a problem with that, but kicking to make it 24 - 31 with the plan to go for 2 the next time is idiotic.
He should have gone for 2 to make it 25-31. If successful you win the game and national title with a PAT if you score again. If you miss it then you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game to get the national championship. This way you're still going for the win, but you cut the chances of losing everything in half basically.
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09-18-2007, 12:59 AM
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#29
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: is diablo3 out yet?
Posts: 11,504
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Icing the kicker for a chipshot. Oops, now they're going for it. Oops, they scored a touchdown instead.
Nice job Reid.
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09-18-2007, 01:00 AM
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#30
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,840
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Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
Quote:
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.
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Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.
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