One thing that is a stone cold lock on that list is that Jack Johnson is horrendous and always has been.

The Habs crowd's so good.

They gasp at every puck shot.

Maybe a bit much.

No, North Van. Brett played at North Shore Winter Club and Bart played football in the area.

So this is what it's like when the other team pulls their goalie down 4.

shea weber, top d-man

Kings Win! Kings Win!

I love how people are using Corsi as the end all be all now. Anything contradicting it is automatically dismissed by the "analytics" crowd. It is used as a proxy, an approximation. If you can't spot the exceptions to the rule then its critically flawed to use it in evaluation.

Weber has never had a good Corsi. But he's always been on a winning team. Always leading in minutes, the most important minutes. Its the same thing with Hall in reverse. He had good shot metrics but is a losing player. He will always be a losing player. Because his shots are of **** quality compared to what he gives up positionally to fire them in that loose, haphazard fashion.

People who just look at shot stats are worse than the people who still don't consider them at all. Just using it as an end all be all crutch. PK Subban will be exposed in the West as well. The game isn't about shots. It was a good predictor before it became mainstream, but now you see players and coaches actually coaching for it. They have cause-effect backwards. Thinking that lots of shots = good play/good player. When its good player -> tends to lead to lots of shots.

Corsi is becoming more and more irrelevant.

You always have to be a step ahead. Corsi and Fenwick were great about 3-4 years ago. They are actually leading to so many false beliefs now that they are almost beyond useless and actually counter productive now in at least 50% of situations.

you seem 10 steps ahead with your "sorting by winning team"

canadiens +9, second best team in DA LEAGUE +5


lets go

I think i would score 20 on McDavids win. He is probably already the best player in the NHL. Lucic is the luckiest gut in the NHL. Playing with Krecji, Koptiar, McDavid.

the game isn't about shots.

So is there a shot map or something which shows Hall taking bad shots or us the Oilers' record all the evidence we need

Azn is clearly Benning's 2+2 account

Laine on the one hand is ultra-confident, more so than any other Finn in NHL ever, on the other hand he violently (yet unemotionally, stoically) insults himself if he doesn't score goals (even if his team wins). It's a strange mindset, and I agree with 72off that he should show his personality, as it is entertaining. He is not as good as Matthews, but he holds himself up to extremely high standards at a very young age

Agree, too bad it´s all about saying nothing these days. He´ll prolly tone it down slowly.

Was it Marek on Pdocast who stood up for Benning, doing his best to overcome the mistakes of the past.

SJ-Pit 3rd was intense, for a second thought it was still June and not October.

The Vancouver Canucks are the only undefeated remaining.

This is ridiculous. First off, Weber hasn't always been on a winning team - Nashville finished 4th from the bottom in 2012-13, that's how they managed to draft Seth Jones.

Second, you don't even have to look at shot stats with Weber. We can just look at goal stats over the long term. Weber just doesn't do way better than his team in terms of goals scored/goals against. And he's getting worse in that regard. Among the 223 defensemen who played 3000 or more 5 on 5 minutes between 2008-09 and 2015-16, Weber ranks 70th in relative GF%. Now since this stat takes into account teammates, it is slightly penalizing him for playing on a good team. Subban ranks 14th.

Hall among forwards ranks 48th which makes sense because Edmonton was a tire fire apart from him.

This stat isn't fantastic for many reasons, but you don't believe in shot metrics, so it's the best I could do.

There's no more insipid idea in sports that some people are winners and some people are losers. I used to hold that belief myself, and I've just seen it proven wrong so many times.

saw Hall scored 2 goals the other day when the Devils beat the Ducks 2-1, what a loser

Yeah watching the game I would say mathews is better currently. He's more complete, better skater and passer. But Laine has an unreal shot.

I'll give a full tr of the heritage classic weekend.

Its not that there are "winners" and "losers", its that Weber is a good player, which is going to lead to him being on more winning teams, while Hall is not a good player, which will always lead to his teams being worse/bad. Especially when you are paying 6M in cap for replacement level contribution. Worse when you are giving him 20 min/night including PP1.

You are just spoon feeding him everything possible to succeed at the cost of the rest of your team. Notice Cammalleri's goal totals go down this year. Notice Palmieri will have goal totals drop this year. Because they are being funneled to Hall. At not a better rate than the rest of the team. Just mass volume.

If you gave Yakupov 20 min/night including PP1 he would be a 30-40 goal scorer in the league. While also being an atrocious player and being on a losing team. Its why players like Brad Boyes score 40 goals on a brutal STL team and when the team gets good, his numbers drop and is eventually gotten rid of. Ditto Jason Blake, etc.

Scoring goals/offense is actually the easiest and least important part of NHL hockey. Being good defensively/ being a solid player is actually the hardest and most important. People think it is the reverse.

Yes, Hall scored 2 PP goals in a win in 4 games. How is this anything but a striking negative? How do you view that as a positive. Those PP goals would have went to Cammalleri or Palmieri last year and the team would have won that game at the same % frequency or higher, while being more competitive/winning the other 3 games at a higher frequency too.

re: Heritage Classic

weird thing i saw discussed today is how the Jets have basically never had good goaltending.

their best all-time:
Bob Essensa
Ondrej Pavelec (can he play in the alumni game btw?)
Brian Hayward
Doug Soetaert
Daniel Berthiaume
Pokey Reddick

vs the Oilers' best:
Grant Fuhr
Bill Ranford
Tommy Salo
Andy Moog
Dwayne Roloson
Curtis Joseph

both:
Nikolai Khabibulin (Edm 117gp, Wpg 79)
and also Essensa

seems downright bizarre that they've never really had anyone legit
i guess Khabby might have been the guy had the team never moved 2 years into his career

Cammalleri only had 14 goals last season, also he's old and gets hurt literally every season

Palmieri is currently at 0.5 goals/game (up from 0.37 last season)

Henrique also probably won't score 30 goals again because he won't shoot 20% again (same for DSP shooting 24%) of Taylor Hall

also kudos to Canada winning the 2015 & 2016 Worlds in spite of Hall's 13g/21pts, i don't know how they did it

You have no idea what you are talking about. I just told you that Hall has the 40th best GF% relative to his team among forwards. That means that the Oilers had a way better goal differential with him on the ice than without him. And that covers all his seasons, not just recent ones where he's bound to be better than his rookie year. So according to this theory, Hall is being boosted by the other players on the ice to score goals, and he's one of the best in the league when it comes to fomenting goal differential, but they would score more without him. Something doesn't really add up here.

The Oilers sucked because of all the other players. Not Taylor Hall.