NFL Off-Season 2017 - Page 24 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

That's fair wrt TD, the Warner thing I just can't shake the 5 years of being irrelevant. At QB? in a QB starved league?

And like I said, careers getting shorter at a lot of positions so Davis 4yrs will hold up.

His thumb was legit ****ed up for years. NYG didn't give him a fair shake, he was 5-3 when benched if I remember right. Eli was always starting midseason ldo.

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02-05-2017 , 03:14 PM

#577

DodgerIrish

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Steve McNair won't make it I'd assume. I think the NFL HOF is pickier than people realize. The all time leader in ints didn't make it for decades.

There's 22 positions on the field + special teams.

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02-05-2017 , 03:14 PM

#578

capone0

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Originally Posted by th14

Baseball HOF is selective and historically sportswriters and fans would have extensive discussion about a player's worthiness. That sport also lends itself to long careers and emphasis on stat accumulation.

seems like people inadvertently apply that context to other HOF that aren't as selective

NFL HOF is pretty selective, there are only 303 members (started in 1963) vs 317 for baseball (220 are players) (Started in 1936) but football has approximately 25 starters to 12-15 baseball. It's definitely different though. Seems to be 2 ways to get into the football HOF as a player--extremely high peak for 3-4 years or high peak for 8-10+ depending on position. I didn't go through the NFL list but I think both "members" lists include coaches/contributors. So actual players is probably on the order of 200-225 over 50 years.

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02-05-2017 , 03:15 PM

#579

Alpha Fish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerIrish

His thumb was legit ****ed up for years. NYG didn't give him a fair shake, he was 5-3 when benched if I remember right. Eli was always starting midseason ldo.

put up solid numbers got benched for Eli who promptly went 1-6 with the same team

lol Giants

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02-05-2017 , 03:16 PM

#580

capone0

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Originally Posted by DodgerIrish

Steve McNair won't make it I'd assume. I think the NFL HOF is pickier than people realize. The all time leader in ints didn't make it for decades.

There's 22 positions on the field + special teams.

Every MVP is in the HOF. He might not make it in during the normal rounds but I doubtful he misses it in the senior list especially since he died pretty tragically.

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02-05-2017 , 03:18 PM

#581

capone0

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Kurt is in the HOF for his playoff runs, 2 MVPs. He is also been a loved personality and a beloved "story" of the NFL; he went from a grocery bagger to MVP of the biggest sports league in the world.

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02-05-2017 , 03:18 PM

#582

DodgerIrish

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Guys like Chris Warren and Carnell Lake are analogous to like Bernie Williams or Al Leiter.

It's the NBA that lets everyone in.

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02-05-2017 , 03:18 PM

#583

Tom Ames

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Originally Posted by tiote222

Donald Trump Congratulates Super Bowl Winner via Twitter - Yes
1.685
Donald Trump Congratulates Super Bowl Winner via Twitter - No
1.8

What do you guys think please ? Want to bet on this

No.

If Atlanta wins, he will congratulate the Patriots and proclaim they really won. Lock of the day.

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02-05-2017 , 03:19 PM

#584

DodgerIrish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Every MVP is in the HOF. He might not make it in during the normal rounds but I doubtful he misses it in the senior list especially since he died pretty tragically.

No they're not.

Phil Simms and Boomer for one. Rich Gannon won't.

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02-05-2017 , 03:19 PM

#585

GusJohnsonGOAT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

Kurt Warner is such a nice guy that nobody mentions that he got cut by the Rams and was basically irrelevant from 2002-2007. No other QB going to the HOF just had 5 years of nothing in the middle of their career.

Had 5 good years out of 11.

The only 2 teams in his career that he had success on had Faulk/Bruce/Holt and Boldin/Fitzgerald.

He wasn't irrelevant, he was mostly hurt for that period. The Giants were also pretty bad as the had the 4th pick in the 2004 draft and ended up swapping Rivers for Manning.

I mean, if you compare him to some of the other QBs in the HoF, it makes sense he's in. He's a lot better than Aikman. And I know it's a different era, but man are Namath's stats horrendous.

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02-05-2017 , 03:21 PM

#586

capone0

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Phil was never the MVP, he won SB MVP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...e_Player_Award

Boomer may make it in the "senior" HOF circuit.

Rich is probably doubtful but probably has a "senior" circuit chance.

I guess it's NBA where no MVPs are not in the HOF that have retired.

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02-05-2017 , 03:22 PM

#587

DodgerIrish

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McNair's career was also over, it's closer to a Roberto Clemente thing than like Thurman Munson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Every MVP is in the HOF. He might not make it in during the normal rounds but I doubtful he misses it in the senior list especially since he died pretty tragically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Kurt is in the HOF for his playoff runs, 2 MVPs. He is also been a loved personality and a beloved "story" of the NFL; he went from a grocery bagger to MVP of the biggest sports league in the world.

Greatest Show on Turf

A part of the greatest SB ever imo, def a top 5 one. Also a part of the greatest playoff duel ever which he won against Godgers.

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02-05-2017 , 03:24 PM

#588

DodgerIrish

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Originally Posted by capone0

Phil was never the MVP, he won SB MVP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...e_Player_Award

Boomer may make it in the "senior" HOF circuit.

Rich is probably doubtful but probably has a "senior" circuit chance.

I guess it's NBA where no MVPs are not in the HOF that have retired.

I didn't think so.

His wiki page is wrong:

Quote:

Phil Simms
refer to caption
Simms in 2003
No. 11
Position: Quarterback
Personal information
Date of birth: November 3, 1954 (age 62)
Place of birth: Springfield, Kentucky
Height: 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)
Weight: 216 lb (98 kg)
Career information
High school: Louisville (KY) Southern
College: Morehead State
NFL Draft: 1979 / Round: 1 / Pick: 7
Career history
New York Giants (1979–1993)
Career highlights and awards
2× Super Bowl champion (XXI, XXV)
Super Bowl MVP (XXI)
2× Pro Bowl (1985, 1993)
First-team All-Pro (1986)
NFL Most Valuable Player (1986)
New York Giants No. 11 retired
New York Giants Ring of Honor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Simms

That was LT. I was looking to make sure he wasn't in the HOF fact-checking my earlier post.

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02-05-2017 , 03:28 PM

#589

Alpha Fish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT

he's #1 in completion %, Y/att and Y/G and #2 in passer rtg on that list (and that includes his "irrelevant" years)

but I guess he's just not HOF material

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02-05-2017 , 03:28 PM

#590

capone0

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Simms probably has some outside shot on the "senior" circuit with all his TV contributions.

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02-05-2017 , 03:28 PM

#591

DodgerIrish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Phil was never the MVP, he won SB MVP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...e_Player_Award

Boomer may make it in the "senior" HOF circuit.

Rich is probably doubtful but probably has a "senior" circuit chance.

I guess it's NBA where no MVPs are not in the HOF that have retired.

Doubtful Rose makes it.

He's gonna be looked at more like Steve Francis than AI or Russ.

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02-05-2017 , 03:31 PM

#592

capone0

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Yeah Rose probably has a shot at breaking that stat. Quickest high peak and then quick irrelevancy due to injuries that I can remember. I honestly never liked the kid. He also didn't deserve the MVP and only got it b/c he was the best player on that really good regular season bulls team. Wasn't that Miami's first year with LBJ--he was still adjusting to the new team?

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02-05-2017 , 03:33 PM

#593

hard2tel

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Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if by the 3rd quarter he is questioning the refs and coaching decisions on twitter.

I would honestly be surprised if he didn't chime in at some point. Maybe after that anheuser busch commercial airs.

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02-05-2017 , 03:39 PM

#594

DodgerIrish

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Originally Posted by capone0

Yes.

Grant Hill. Penny is the other example.

Jay Williams and Shaun Livingston are the I-wonders that never even got to the peak.

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02-05-2017 , 04:04 PM

#595

Onlydo2days

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Originally Posted by Alpha Fish

he's #1 in completion %, Y/att and Y/G and #2 in passer rtg on that list (and that includes his "irrelevant" years)

but I guess he's just not HOF material

He barely played those 5 years. If he had to play any time other than when he was on a good team with HOF WR's/RB then his #'s would probably look a lot different.

People can say "Oh Giants benched him" but he played with elite WR's in AZ and they still drafted Matt Leinart.

I don't even necessarily mind him getting in because I don't care who is/isn't in the HOF, but I think there will be a lot of guys that don't get in who are better than him.

Yeah, he had injuries in the middle of his career but so have a lot of guys. And they didn't get to play with Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Fitz, Boldin in their primes.

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02-05-2017 , 04:11 PM

#596

Alpha Fish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

He barely played those 5 years. If he had to play any time other than when he was on a good team with HOF WR's/RB then his #'s would probably look a lot different.

People can say "Oh Giants benched him" but he played with elite WR's in AZ and they still drafted Matt Leinart.

I don't even necessarily mind him getting in because I don't care who is/isn't in the HOF, but I think there will be a lot of guys that don't get in who are better than him.

Yeah, he had injuries in the middle of his career but so have a lot of guys. And they didn't get to play with Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Fitz, Boldin in their primes.

like who though? QBs with better stats: Peyton, Brady, Who Dat and Godgers are all getting in easily

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02-05-2017 , 04:16 PM

#597

Onlydo2days

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Well then you are getting into era comparisons and that is impossible for QB.

But someone like Donovan McNabb isn't going into the HOF right? He carried teams with much less offensive talent for years. Had good #'s, good team success, lost a competitive SB with his #1 WR hurt and most importantly, he's just better than Kurt Warner. No GM or personnel guy would take Warner over him when the two of them were playing.

I guess that is my issue with Warner, he just isn't that level of QB to me. More of a guy that only played well when everything was in his favor.

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02-05-2017 , 04:22 PM

#598

DodgerIrish

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Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

People can say "Oh Giants benched him" but he played with elite WR's in AZ and they still drafted Matt Leinart.

They drafted Leinart with the thinking it was going to be the Eli plan.

Kurt won the job they didn't want to give him for a couple years.

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02-05-2017 , 04:28 PM

#599

Alpha Fish

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what do you mean by era comparison? you realize current era is better for QBs right? and Warner has the best averages out of anyone who's already in HOF

you should've said from the beginning that the guy with 6% better completion percentage and almost 1 yard better ANY/A (not to mention 2 more MVPs and 2 more SB appearances) is not as good as McNabb then I wouldn't even bother arguing with you

have a nice day