NFL Modern Era Draft: Discussion Thread - Page 1104 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

kkcountry · 01-07-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

highly disagree with this as I think WR#3 is one of the most important positions because he will being covered by teams #3 CBs and if you look at every team their is almost always a pretty big dropoff from #2 CB to #3 CB and a ton of times the Rod Smith/Javon Walker matchup (whichever is guarded by the #3 CB cause I will have Rod in the slot but teams will prob use their #2 corner on him anyway) will be by far my most favorable matchup and this is coming from someone who has Marvin Harrison but realizes he will be guarded by a #1 CB and take a look at all the great #1 Corners in this league...

That is a huge reason why I went with someone as good as Javon as my #3 WR and def gives me a good advantage most teams won't have.

+1 (Holla atcha boy Welker!)

SMIGLET · 01-07-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

highly disagree with this as I think WR#3 is one of the most important positions because he will being covered by teams #3 CBs and if you look at every team their is almost always a pretty big dropoff from #2 CB to #3 CB and a ton of times the Rod Smith/Javon Walker matchup (whichever is guarded by the #3 CB cause I will have Rod in the slot but teams will prob use their #2 corner on him anyway) will be by far my most favorable matchup and this is coming from someone who has Marvin Harrison but realizes he will be guarded by a #1 CB and take a look at all the great #1 Corners in this league...

That is a huge reason why I went with someone as good as Javon as my #3 WR and def gives me a good advantage most teams won't have.

eh i like manning my 3 corners vs you putting rhodes on gonzo and letting collins freelance

Jeff W · 01-07-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkcountry

is it possible to take every Lions QBs this year and assess them as "one" with the FO metrics? i'd be interested to see what that looks like.

When you add up their DYAR, you get a replacement level QB (~20 dyar). Calvin Johnson was the 11th best WR by DYAR, and he's underrated because he runs ~37% deep routes.

EPiPeN11 · 01-07-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMIGLET

eh i like my 3 corners vs you

I love my Walker (or Rod Smith) vs DeAngelo Hall matchup vs you for this league as I am in the camp that Hall is very overrated.

And in response to your edit, you def can't single cover all my guys and expect to only have 1 help guy cause that's gonna be real tough on you. You also have to deal with Deuce out of the backfield (a great RB reciever) or Jamal (a very good one) who will be matched up 1v1 also on a LB.

And if you go zone all my WRs/TEs are very good/great against zones as well.

SMIGLET · 01-07-2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

I love my Walker (or Rod Smith) vs DeAngelo Hall matchup vs you for this league as I am in the camp that Hall is very overrated.

he wont get beat very often on simple routes, his problem was getting beat on double moves because hes so aggressive. but if it is a problem i can just have collins cheat towards deangelos matchups, i think i have that luxury with woodson and rhodes who cover so well. you have rypien who likes to get rid of the ball very quickly and basically i like all my cover guys on your receivers for shorter routes

with 2 elite pass rushers coming at you on most downs, your qb is just not going to have enough time to diagnose the entire field and that is what i think you are greatly overrating. its not like wilfork and washington are going to be easy to handle either. those are 2 guys who are regularly double teamed on every play, and one of your guards is somewhat undersized

Jeff W · 01-07-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

A ton of times the Rod Smith/Javon Walker matchup (whichever is guarded by the #3 CB cause I will have Rod in the slot but teams will prob use their #2 corner on him anyway) will be by far my most favorable matchup and this is coming from someone who has Marvin Harrison but realizes he will be guarded by a #1 CB and take a look at all the great #1 Corners in this league...

In the NFL in man coverage, the #1 WR usually matches up with the #2 CB--CBs almost always line up on one side of the field and don't shadow the top WR(similar to how teams don't move their RDE->LDE to exploit matchups, etc--it's simpler for the players to just learn how to play on one side of the field), so O. Coordinators often put their #1 WR on the #2 CB to get a better matchup. In zone coverage, teams have even less flexibility. I guess in this draft, man teams probably won't be punished in public opinion for shadowing receivers, though.

Jeff W · 01-07-2009, 01:17 AM

Btw, Dr. Zoidberg, you're on the clock (for real this time!).

EPiPeN11 · 01-07-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMIGLET

he wont get beat very often on simple routes, his problem was getting beat on double moves because hes so aggressive. but if it is a problem i can just have collins cheat towards deangelos matchups, i think i have that luxury with woodson and rhodes who cover so well. you have rypien who likes to get rid of the ball very quickly and basically i like all my cover guys on your receivers for shorter routes

with 2 elite pass rushers coming at you on most downs, your qb is just not going to have enough time to diagnose the entire field and that is what i think you are greatly overrating. its not like wilfork and washington are going to be easy to handle either. those are 2 guys who are regularly double teamed on every play

Def disagree, I think ur going to have trouble covering all my guys 1v1 with only 1 help guy. And Rypien was very smart and could read defenses well.

You guys are also are way overstating how much pressure ur lines are going to get, I mean even the best pass rushers had a sick game if they get say 2 sacks with 3 additional hurries and that's going up against worse pass blockers than in this league. I def won't be getting pressure on every play, heck it will be less than half. And if a team keeps getting pressure for some reason (prob cause of blitzing) I can just have Tony G stay in and chip and then go out for a pass or keep my RBs to either chip/block as well. Also again Rypien avoids sacks like it's his job anyway so although I think he will obviously get sacked more in this league he will still do a great job avoiding them. Plus I will be running the ball a lot so it will be harder for teams to set up pass rushes/pass defenses against me.

Also Vince/Washington don't need to be double teamed on passing downs, only running ones. Neither is a pass rushing threat.

EPiPeN11 · 01-07-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff W

In the NFL in man coverage, the #1 WR usually matches up with the #2 CB--CBs almost always line up on one side of the field and don't shadow the top WR(similar to how teams don't move their RDE->LDE to exploit matchups, etc--it's simpler for the players to just learn how to play on one side of the field), so O. Coordinators often put their #1 WR on the #2 CB to get a better matchup. In zone coverage, teams have even less flexibility. I guess in this draft, man teams probably won't be punished in public opinion for shadowing receivers, though.

This is a fair point but even then I feel like a lot of teams #2 Corners are still great and the real dropoff is from #2 CB to #3 CB (not much from #1 CB to #2 CB).

SarcasticRat · 01-07-2009, 01:25 AM

fwiw I feel like I have one of the best teams in terms of coverage. A lot of teams took defensive linemen too early and are going to have a hard time covering elite WRs, which makes me glad I got Woodson round one plus good coverage linebackers. And I did this without really giving up much in terms of pass rush.

/blatant team hype

kkcountry · 01-07-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarcasticRat

fwiw I feel like I have one of the best teams in terms of coverage. A lot of teams took defensive linemen too early and are going to have a hard time covering elite WRs, which makes me glad I got Woodson round one plus good coverage linebackers. And I did this without really giving up much in terms of pass rush.

/blatant team hype

the best coverage is an elite pass rush. think Ed Reed would look like the GOAT in the Lions secondary?

SMIGLET · 01-07-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

Def disagree, I think ur going to have trouble covering all my guys 1v1 with only 1 help guy. And Rypien was very smart and could read defenses well.

You guys are also are way overstating how much pressure ur lines are going to get, I mean even the best pass rushers had a sick game if they get say 2 sacks with 3 additional hurries and that's going up against worse pass blockers than in this league. I def won't be getting pressure on every play, heck it will be less than half. And if a team keeps getting pressure for some reason (prob cause of blitzing) I can just have Tony G stay in and chip and then go out for a pass or keep my RBs to either chip/block as well. Also again Rypien avoids sacks like it's his job anyway so although I think he will obviously get sacked more in this league he will still do a great job avoiding them. Plus I will be running the ball a lot so it will be harder for teams to set up pass rushes/pass defenses against me.

Also Vince/Washington don't need to be double teamed on passing downs, only running ones. Neither is a pass rushing threat.

lord i couldnt disagree more with all of that

EPiPeN11 · 01-07-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarcasticRat

fwiw I feel like I have one of the best teams in terms of coverage. A lot of teams took defensive linemen too early and are going to have a hard time covering elite WRs, which makes me glad I got Woodson round one plus good coverage linebackers. And I did this without really giving up much in terms of pass rush.

/blatant team hype

ur team is def really good and I feel like we probably have the 2 best teams at this. Also agree I didn't give up much of a pass rush either, although I do realize both of my DTs are not real pass rushing threats but plan on getting a DT later on to do this on 3rd down situations. Both my DEnds are great pass rushers though and Lloyd/Miller/Henderson can all pass rush really well on blitzes too.

Jeff W · 01-07-2009, 01:27 AM

Note on Double Teams/Double Coverage: The players who get double teamed in the NFL will not necessarily be double teamed as often or even at all in many cases in this league. Double teams are a way to bolster your weaker matchups and in this league, the weak links are comparatively stronger. Some people talk like every single player on their defense will be double teamed.

EPiPeN11 · 01-07-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkcountry

the best coverage is an elite pass rush. think Ed Reed would look like the GOAT in the Lions secondary?

Just goes to show u how great Champ really is doing his thing with no pass rush

fwiw I think 2+2ers on here way underrate secondary play and overrate pass rush. I do think pass rush is slightly more important but def not >>>>>> like people on here imply and like Sarcastic said below me every team will have a pretty sick pass rush. I mean I feel like I have one of the best pass rushing teams in this league if Gastineau stays healthy.