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NFL Draft Discussion 2017 - No Spoilers NFL Draft Discussion 2017 - No Spoilers

04-13-2017 , 06:32 AM
Oh, I'm also a big fan of R&B singers Ricky Seals-Jones and Gerald Everett. And really, the name Corn Elder deserves a second mention as well.

Anyway, if you like mock drafts, vix and I did one, maybe I'll write something on it later today, I dunno. (We went through four rounds; he may or may not be adding more picks afterwards.)
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04-13-2017 , 06:51 AM
****, I missed them. Weston Steelhammer must be a safety of a linebacker, surely?
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04-13-2017 , 01:09 PM
T.J. Watt should be a 1st round pick. A couple things. He looks good on tape but not great. He def flashes great at times though. He has a big frame with long arms and huge hands. If I'm drafting anywhere after 20 he's the pick. Obviously depending on who's there. He can play OLB in a 3-4 or add 15-20 pounds and and play rush end in a 4-3. So super versatile.

The thing that should make him super appealing to teams, well besides his pass rushing skills, is he only played 2 years at LB after converting from TE. His second year full year he had 11.5 sacks and 15.5 TFL.

At 250+ pounds
6.79 3 cone
4.69 40
37 inch very
10'8 broad


It probably takes him a year or two to really pop in the NFL but he could be a double digit sack guy. He seems like more of a natural pass rusher and with that long frame i think he's best suited to play rush end in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3 than putting him at OLB in space covering people half the time. He could do it though.

He was very disruptive in this game.

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04-13-2017 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
Corn Elder
Da... Daddy?
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04-13-2017 , 07:07 PM
Corn Elder and Chunky Clements should go into business together down the track
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04-13-2017 , 08:06 PM
Anyone watching the draft simulation on ESPN? Lol so weird.
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04-13-2017 , 08:40 PM
I assumed TJ Watt was a lock first b/c of his brother.
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04-13-2017 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Oh, I'm also a big fan of R&B singers Ricky Seals-Jones and Gerald Everett. And really, the name Corn Elder deserves a second mention as well.

Anyway, if you like mock drafts, vix and I did one, maybe I'll write something on it later today, I dunno. (We went through four rounds; he may or may not be adding more picks afterwards.)
I figure Cle--Garrett, SF--Fournette. No way is watson going before late first round imo.

Trubisky gonna be first QB off board, he's the tallest and whitest.

They'll probably pick the Cal QB again in round 1 because why wouldn't they?
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04-13-2017 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut2010
Anyone watching the draft simulation on ESPN? Lol so weird.
Excruciatingly painful to listen to, even as background noise. Pretending to make deals while talking over each other and PolianThroatClearing.com

lol
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04-13-2017 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
I assumed TJ Watt was a lock first b/c of his brother.
He's a very good athlete in his own right.
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04-14-2017 , 12:36 AM
I don't think tj watt goes in first round.

Athletic, but a tweener.
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04-14-2017 , 11:50 AM
T.J. Watt is just starting to develop. He's going to get help from his brother too which can't hurt. He's not close to his peak. I hear scouts bring up that most of his sacks came against TE. First this was his first full year starting at OLB. Second I watched the tape below and pretty sure he can be successful against OL. So that stat doesn't worry me as much. It's not like this is a guy that has played OLB for 3-4 years but only this year has been productive.

Not sure which position he's going to play. He's nearly 6'5. Not a lot of 6'5 LB running around. Plus who wants to waste that frame with those long arms and huge hands. With only 1 year of full time play under his belt his hands are already really good. He can carry 270+ on that frame.

Statistically this is his best game but its probably not really his best game. Wisconsin gets up big in this game and in the 4th quarter T.J. is able to just pin his ears back and get after the QB. Flashing in some spots.

6:53- Push/pull technique He's good at it. Made the tackle look silly.
7:12- Nice pressure against the RT. The RT was struggling against Watt. Heavy hands. You can see them at work in this play a little. He uses them well to get linemen off balance. RT looks punch drunk. Love seeing that.
7:29- They try to double him because he's killing the RT and he still nearly gets there anyway. Now he's making the offense commit two OL to him which helps the entire defense.
7:48- Wisconsin runs a stunt that Watt disguises well. He smashes the LT and knockes him back almost off his feet. This frees #47 Biegel to cut inside and have almost a straight run at the QB. This forces the QB to step up in the pocket where Watt who doesn't quit on the play sacks him. It shows his power, football IQ, and motor. Nice play.

:23 - Showed good coverage/ball skills dropping back in coverage against the TE

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04-14-2017 , 02:45 PM
The draft is getting less play and hype than I recall in previous years. Why is that?
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04-14-2017 , 02:51 PM
Latest Mock of PFF

1. Cleveland Browns
Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas A&M

Garrett’s edge-rush ability and freaky athleticism make him the top pick in my mock, as he will be able to make game-changing defensive plays to negatively impact the opposition’s passing game. Garrett has racked up 31 sacks, 35 QB hits, 98 total pressures, and three batted passes on 976 pass-rushing snaps over the past three seasons, despite being the focus of opposing teams’ game plans.

2. San Francisco 49ers
Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford

McCaffrey is arguably the best offensive player in the draft class, and pairing his versatility with a creative offensive mind like Kyle Shanahan is too much to pass up. Historically speaking, the tree that Kyle Shanahan and Bobby Turner come from would prefer to find a RB late and have Turner mold him, but this is an exception, as McCaffrey is more than just a running back — he can also play the wide receiver position just as well as a true WR. McCaffrey becomes a deadly open-field runner after the catch, and forced 21 missed tackles as a receiver on 38 receptions in 2016. He is a four-down player, as he can make a nice punt return and then stay on the field with the offense for all three-downs, play multiple positions, and be a mismatch player in the passing game. The return on investment with this selection would be high.


3. Chicago Bears
Jonathan Allen, DI, Alabama

Senior Analyst Steve Palazzolo also had this pairing in his recent three-round mock draft. Quarterback needs to be strongly considered here, but I’m giving new GM Ryan Pace the benefit of the doubt on free-agent signee Mike Glennon. The Bears take the best available non-quarterback in Jonathan Allen. Allen can provide a three-down inside player and a valuable inside pass-rush presence for the Bears. In 2016, Allen generated 13 sacks, 13 hits, and 41 hurries on 463 pass-rush snaps; any NFL team would love that type of pass-rush production coming from the interior of its*defensive line.

4. Jacksonville Jaguars
Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

The Jaguars have had up-and-down performances from quarterback Blake Bortles, and inconsistency at the position is hindering a young team from reaching the next level. Deshaun Watson will bring instant competition to the roster, and either propel Bortles to play at high level consistently, or Watson will take the job and possibly provide the stability the team needs. Watson is a much more experienced and polished passer than Bortles was as a prospect, and he’s highly accurate, with an adjusted completion percentage of 76.1. The two are stylistically different, which should make for an interesting competition. Best-case scenario: The Jaguars quickly determine one of the QBs is their guy, and trade the other for some form of compensation.

5. Tennessee Titans
John Ross, WR, Washington

John Ross is so explosive and deadly that he would bring a fantastic weapon for quarterback Marcus Mariota. Ross would also bring a different element to the Titans’ offense, which is designed for the “exotic smashmouth” approach, but could use a little more exotic. Ross generated 17 touchdowns and 386 yards after the catch in 2016. Furthermore, Mariota and Ross have good personal chemistry already, and Ross could make an impact from Day 1 with the Titans.

6. New York Jets
Jamal Adams, S, LSU

Our analysts were not high on the Christian Hackenberg selection in the second round of last year’s draft, and although I was tempted to take a quarterback here for the Jets, I decided to give them another year to see what they have at the position. Safety Jamal Adams has the coverage ability to play on the back end, in the slot, or even at cornerback, if needed. Adams is a fluid and versatile coverage player with 251 of his 802 coverage snaps last year coming from the slot. His ability to impact the passing game in so many ways makes him a valuable pick here.


7. Los Angeles Chargers
Patrick Mahomes II, QB, Texas Tech

Obviously a replacement for Philip Rivers needs to be found, and this selection of Patrick Mahomes gives the Chargers long-term stability at the quarterback position. Mahomes reminds me a great deal of Brett Favre between the lines, as he is willing to take risks to make plays and has the arm to back them up. Mahomes can push the ball deep, and in 2016, he threw 15 touchdown passes on deep passes (throws targeted 20 or more yards downfield). The talented-but-unorthodox Mahomes can learn behind the talented-but-unorthodox Rivers for a year or two and then give the city of Los Angeles a young face of the franchise.


8. Carolina Panthers
O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama

The chance to pair an outstanding tight end prospect with Cam Newton long-term is too much to pass up. Greg Olsen is still a productive player, so the Panthers can use two-tight end personnel groupings more frequently until Olsen begins to decline (if that in fact ever becomes the case). Howard can be used in a variety of ways much like Olsen, as they can both be split out wide, line up in the slot, or in a traditional in-line role. Howard can get open downfield, as well, and his four deep receptions (20 or more yards downfield) rank fifth in the draft class. Newton to Howard for years would be a scary combination

9. Cincinnati Bengals

Derek Barnett, Edge, Tennessee
Derek Barnett is the best pass-rusher not named Myles Garrett in this draft class, and the Bengals would love to add his pass-rushing production to their defense. Barnett consistently generates pressure at a higher rate than other edge-rushers, as he generated pressure on the QB on 20.0 percent of his rushes (the NCAA average was 10.0 percent). Barnett generated 34 sacks, 43 QB hits, 110 hurries, and two batted passes on 1,126 pass-rush snaps over the last three seasons. He is a technically-sound pass-rusher, and 45 of his 78 pressures came to the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle in 2016.

10. Buffalo Bills

Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
Trubisky’s small sample size scares me, but he is a talented passer. The Bills get another quarterback for the same reason Jacksonville selected*one, hopefully coming to a long-term conclusion about either their incumbent or the newcomer. The big concern with Trubisky is sample size, but he has shown he can handle pressure well in his time on the field. In 2016, Trubisky’s adjusted completion percentage was 75.1 with no pressure; it only dropped to 66.7 under pressure, which ranks fifth-best*in the draft class. His 76.9 adjusted completion percentage against the blitz ranks third*in the draft class.

11. New Orleans Saints
Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State

Colleague Josh Liskiewitz also had this same selection in his Mock Week draft. The Saints are thrilled that the best cornerback in the draft falls to them. Lattimore has the size, speed, athleticism, and ball skills that teams want in their top cornerback. Opposing quarterbacks only recorded a 30.2 QB rating when throwing into Lattimore’s coverage in 2016. He can make an instant impact for the Saints.

12. Cleveland Browns

Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State
Three quarterbacks are gone, so the Browns get a leader*for their defense instead with Malik Hooker. He represents production in the way of disrupting the passing game of opponents both in the slot and as a centerfielder. Hooker has the range, instincts, and ball skills one would want if they were creating a free safety in a video game, as evidenced by his seven interceptions in 2016. He can also clamp down on slot receivers, surrendering only 73 yards for the season when covering a receiver in the slot.

13. Arizona Cardinals

Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU
Adding another CB that can play man coverage opposite of Patrick Peterson is the biggest impact the Cardinals can make with this selection. It instantly makes the entire defense more effective, as they can blitz as often as they like when they know their two starting cornerbacks can handle the opposition’s best two wide receivers without any help. Opposing quarterbacks only recorded a 60.6 QB rating when throwing into White’s coverage in 2016, and his 12 pass breakups tied*for third-most in the FBS.

14. Philadelphia Eagles

Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
Building around Carson Wentz is of the utmost importance for the Eagles, especially as young quarterbacks can be streaky their first few years. Corey Davis has averaged 8.1 yards after the catch per completion over the last three seasons, and will make plays for the young Wentz both after the catch and on contested passes.

15. Indianapolis Colts

Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
Andrew Luck has the aggressiveness as a passer to target Mike Williams consistently, and Williams has the size and skill-set to make spectacular plays routinely for Luck. Williams caught 14 deep passes in 2016 (targets 20 or more yards downfield) and can help open up the offense and move the chains.

16. Baltimore Ravens

Reuben Foster, LB, Alabama
One of the better defensive players in all of college football gets plugged into the middle of the Ravens’ defense. Foster can play on all three downs, making a passing-game impact. A*player this good is too much to pass up, even though Baltimore needs a pass-rusher. Foster finished the season with an 86.5 coverage grade and didn’t allow a touchdown in coverage all season.

17. Washington Redskins

Solomon Thomas, Edge, Stanford
Thomas represents the best pass-rushing value here, as he can rush from the DE*position in base defense and DT*in nickel. Thomas recorded 10 sacks, 12 hits, and 22 hurries on 394 pass-rushing snaps in the 2016 season, and only appears to be getting better as a pass-rusher.

18. Tennessee Titans

Carl Lawson, Edge, Auburn
I first had a cornerback in mind, but Defensive Coordinator Dick LeBeau’s scheme places a lot of emphasis on having versatile outside linebackers who can rush the passer at a high-level. Lawson has multiple pass-rush moves at his disposal, and generated nine sacks, 13 QB hits, and 45 hurries on 364 pass-rush snaps in 2016. Lawson is one of the better pure edge-rushers in the draft class, and will help make people around him better.

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
David Njoku, TE, Miami

Njoku is a big, long, rangy mismatch player in the passing game, and can provide another big target for QB Jameis Winston. Njoku has the size and receiving chops to line up in the slot, where he caught 31 passes in 2016, or to split out wide to exploit mismatch advantages. Njoku will dwarf safeties when he is running down the seam, and hauled in four deep passes (targets 20 or more yards downfield) last season. Winston has confidence in his arm and doesn’t mind fitting passes into tight windows to let his man get the ball*— Njoku’s big frame gives him another option.

20. Denver Broncos
Ryan Ramcyzk, OT, Wisconsin

The Broncos could use some help protecting their two young quarterbacks long enough to figure out which one is their long-term answer at the position. Senior Analyst Mike Renner called this pick the “best possible scenario” for the Broncos in his recent*Mock Week draft. Ramczyk can help in the pass protection department, as he only allowed one sack, three QB hits, and eight hurries on 373 pass-blocking snaps in 2016. Ramcyzk was PFF’s highest-graded offensive tackle, and the top tackle on our draft board, so this is a natural fit.

21. Detroit Lions
Kevin King, CB, Washington

King has tremendous length for the position at 6-foot-3 with 32-inch arms and explosive athleticism, which was on display at the combine. King did not allow a touchdown in coverage in 2016, but intercepted two passes and broke up another four. Opposing quarterbacks only recorded a 55.6 QB rating when targeting King in coverage in the 2016 season.

22. Miami Dolphins
Forrest Lamp, OG, Western Kentucky

The Dolphins add the best all-around offensive linemen in the class. Although Lamp played tackle at a high-level in college, he might be an even better fit at guard, and could also play center. Lamp’s versatility will give the Dolphins options to get their best offensive linemen on the field. At tackle in 2016, Lamp didn’t allow a sack, with only three QB hits and two hurries surrendered on 415 pass-blocking snaps.

23. New York Giants
Garett Bolles, OT, Utah

The Giants could use some help at left tackle to keep the aging Eli Manning upright and functional. Bolles gets pushed up here due to lack of depth in the offensive line class. He*is difficult to bull-rush and athletic enough to protect the corner. Bolles allowed three sacks, one QB hit, and 16 hurries on 472 pass-blocking snaps in 2016.

24. Oakland Raiders
Haason Reddick, Edge, Temple

The selection of the athletic and versatile Reddick not only fills a void at inside linebacker, but his pass-rushing ability makes him a chess piece in the Raiders’ defense that could blitz or rush off the edge on third downs. Reddick recorded 10 sacks, four QB hits, 29 hurries, and one batted pass on 248 pass-rushing snaps in 2016.

25. Houston Texans
DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame

The Texans get some competition for Tom Savage, and possibly their long-term answer at quarterback. DeShone Kizer has ideal size and strength for the position, and has shown an ability to respond well to pressure, as his adjusted completion percentage only drops from 68.0 with no pressure to 59.5 with the heat on.

26. Seattle Seahawks
Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado

Ahkello Witherspoon is an outside press corner with impressive measurables, explosive athleticism, and high football IQ. At 6-foot-3 with 33-inch arms, Witherspoon has rare length at the position that allows him to make plays other cornerbacks simply cannot. His length reduces the size of passing windows and allows him to still wrap his arm around and break up slants where he has already given up inside leverage. Opposing QBs recorded just a*50.9 passer rating when throwing into Witherspoon’s coverage in 2016; he allowed 28 receptions on the year and broke up 13 passes. Witherspoon’s ability to recognize route combinations or releases pre-snap and effectively communicate that to this teammates is impressive, and indicates that he spends time in the film room. Witherspoon fits exactly what the Seahawks like to do on defense, and could quickly emerge as a starter in Seattle.


27. Kansas City Chiefs
Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson

The Chiefs could use another good young cornerback, because every team can actually use another good young cornerback. Tankersley only allowed one TD in coverage in 2016, but also intercepted four passes and broke up another nine. Opposing QBs*recorded just a 40.6 passer rating when throwing into Tankersley’s coverage. He should immediately contend for playing time opposite of Marcus Peters.

28. Dallas Cowboys
Adoree’ Jackson, CB/PR, USC

Simply put, Adoree’ Jackson is a freak.*His long speed is ridiculous, and he can make touchdown-saving tackles on the far side of the field look routine. Jackson is an elite athlete who can make an impact as a cover corner, a punt and kick returner, and even a wide receiver. He*has very good ball skills, and has recorded six interceptions and 19 pass breakups over the last three seasons. Jerry Jones has to consider the Deion Sanders-type impact that Jackson’s skill-set would bring back to the Cowboys.


29. Green Bay Packers
Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado

The Packers are a team that can use more than one defensive back, so in this case, they get a DB that can play multiple positions. Chidobe Awuzie can line up outside at corner, at safety, or in the slot. He is also a highly-effective blitzer who has collected eight sacks, six hits, and 17 hurries over the past two seasons.

30. Pittsburgh Steelers
Takkarist McKinley, Edge, UCLA

The Steelers could use some edge-rush production, and McKinley excels at that very task. He can rush from either side successfully, with 32 pressures from the right and 24 from the left in 2016. McKinley has very long arms and can win with that length or with athleticism off the edge. The former Bruin*generated 15 sacks, 24 QB hits, 72 hurries, and three batted passes on 758 pass-rushing snaps over the past three seasons.

31. Atlanta Falcons

Jordan Willis, Edge, Kansas State
Willis provides more of a base-end-type physical presence opposite of the very athletic Vic Beasley. Willis has been super productive as a pass-rusher. In 2016, Willis had 15 sacks, eight QB hits, 57 hurries, and three batted passes on 524 pass-rushing snaps. Willis is also stylistically very different from Beasley, relying more on strength and technique than Beasley’s agility and burst. That style difference will make it difficult on opposing offensive tackles that have to block one after the other.

32. New Orleans Saints
Evan Engram, TE,*Ole Miss

All credit due to colleague Gordon McGuinness for calling this one first in his Mock Week draft on Tuesday. Engram is one of the premier mismatch weapons in the passing game in this draft class, as he is too big for cornerbacks and too fast for linebackers. Engram’s 2.59 yards per route run ranks*first among all tight ends in the class. He would be a fun weapon to hand Sean Payton. as he can be used to stretch the ball deep*— his seven deep receptions (targets 20 or more yards downfield) top the draft class. Engram is also a dynamic option in the slot, where his 44 receptions for 685 total yards both rank first in the draft class among tight ends.







LOL SF and LOL Jac.

I like Adams a little more after he ran faster at his pro-day. So not going to kill the Jets there. It's still the wrong pick.

I like 5-6 DE more than Barnett at #9

I like Willis over Solomon at #17 for the Skins but he's a great prospect in his own right. Deep DE class.

LOL Titans if they take Lawson over Willis. It's not close.

Detroit with a great pick at #21 with Kevin King.

No way Seattle takes Witherspoon at #26 with Obi Melifonwu still there.

Dallas killing the draft again. They get a stud CB in Adoree' Jackson plus a big upgrade to their ST. They have been drafting well lately.

LOL KC if they take Tankersley. He's going to make the team and he'll be a decent pro but he's not a #1 CB. He's more of a day 2 prospect.

LOL at GB if they take Awuzie over Conley if they have to go CB or Peppers.

Atlanta killing the league for the next 5 years with clone edge rushers Jordan Willis and last years sack champ Vic Beasley. Filthy. I would be shocked if Willis isn't taken by Baltimore at #16 if he's there. I don't get the comment on Willis in this mock. His tape is nothing but elite burst over and over again.

Last edited by waterwolves; 04-14-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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04-14-2017 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
The draft is getting less play and hype than I recall in previous years. Why is that?
Well they backed it up a month a couple years ago didn't they? We have to wait longer after the combine so the momentum of the combine and all the pro-days kind of dies down.
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04-14-2017 , 03:10 PM
ESPN has been running Todd McShay on air every day talking about what he looks for in x position...and were still a couple weeks out.
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04-14-2017 , 03:22 PM
Draft is way oversaturated now. You can now get 50 different takes on a guy just from the internet scouts. Also, it's just less interesting when the browns have the top pick.

Lots of teams have old QB's or weak situations at the position--so you can mock them about anywhere. Hoping for the return of major facemelters and who the hell is that?

Last edited by wheatrich; 04-14-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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04-14-2017 , 03:27 PM
WR, your mock is missing a running back
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04-14-2017 , 03:31 PM
Yeah, there not being any top flight QB prospects hurts it a bit. All of them have warts.

Was a believer in Mahomes potential until I found out he sounded like a 13 year old.
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04-14-2017 , 03:32 PM
so fournette is out of the first rd?
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04-14-2017 , 03:33 PM
Thank you but it's not my mock, It's Jordan Plocher's mock off of PFF. I don't see Fournette getting out of the first either. Cleveland would have a hell of a decision there at #33 if the draft went like this.

Fournette or Melifonwu?
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04-14-2017 , 03:42 PM
those PFF mocks are funny because they mock almost directly from PFF grades

There is no chance Lattimore, Hooker, or especially Thomas falls that far
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04-14-2017 , 03:52 PM
Yeah, mocks are either predictions of who teams WILL take or who they SHOULD take...that obviously looks like a "should" mock.

I don't see Hooker, Lattimore, Davis, Williams and Foster all dropping that far, but if they do - and the Bills pass on ALL OF THEM to select Mitch...I might go on a rampage.
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04-14-2017 , 04:03 PM
SF is supposedly very interested in trading down. I dunno what they'll do if they stay put. Thomas makes a lot of sense but their defense is going to look weird-- they drafted two 3-4 DEs the last two years and it seems like they're moving to a 4-3.

Bills reportedly interested in Watson. Hue Jackson supposedly likes Trubisky and there's been a little conflict about who to take 1. (I'm sure it'll still be Garrett, but they may try to move up.)

The interesting thing about this QB class is that seemingly whatever you like in a quarterback you can find a guy to justify as your favorite.
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04-14-2017 , 04:20 PM
I could see Hooker dropping. 1 year starter and he's hurt. He's a natural athlete but not a top 10 pick imo. Even if he was healthy. Top 10 FS? 5 of his 7 INTs are against garbage teams. I agree he's the best FS prospect in this draft though......still think there's 2-3 CB I'd rather have.
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