Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2017, 07:55 PM   #76
BillNye
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BillNye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KILL CHILDRESS
Posts: 9,215
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by nath View Post
I don't know. Dallas says they're optimistic about him playing but supposedly the nerve that's injured is dead and won't fire. They just think he can play anyway. I'm much less optimistic.
Damn last I saw they thought it was coming along but I see now that the most recent update has been negative
BillNye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:10 PM   #77
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolves View Post
Some of them would have done better some a little worse.
Vague and meaningless without specifics
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolves View Post
The point is Zeke is good not special
Wrong, just wrong
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #78
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNye View Post
Damn last I saw they thought it was coming along but I see now that the most recent update has been negative
Yeah, it sucks. Injuries in the NCAA indentured-servitude system have cost us the chance to see some special talents in the NFL in recent years.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:34 PM   #79
ut2010
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ut2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Religion in the fack killed my soul
Posts: 36,264
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

ZEKE would have went over 2100 yards if he didn't sit the last game. 20 backs in the league just as good is just absurd.
ut2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:47 PM   #80
waterwolves
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
waterwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,326
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

People itt underestimating the Cowboys elite OL, elite QB, and elite WR greatly. Only time will be able to prove what I'm saying. OL are finicky they don't stay elite forever. Dak will help because he's going to tear this league up for the next decade and Dez is a beast when healthy but Zeke might have already had his best year.
waterwolves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:51 PM   #81
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 35,809
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolves View Post
People itt underestimating the Cowboys elite OL, elite QB, and elite WR greatly. Only time will be able to prove what I'm saying. OL are finicky they don't stay elite forever. Dak will help because he's going to tear this league up for the next decade and Dez is a beast when healthy but Zeke might have already had his best year.
If that's the case, the bar has been set insanely high. You act like every back can do what he did. They've had other backs with the same line and those guys have had good performances but not elite. I'm shocked that you think he can't possibly get better.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:56 PM   #82
waterwolves
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
waterwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,326
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
If that's the case, the bar has been set insanely high. You act like every back can do what he did. They've had other backs with the same line and those guys have had good performances but not elite. I'm shocked that you think he can't possibly get better.
It's because I have my doubts it's him. Imo it's the situation more than it's him and the situation is as good as it gets for RB. Do you see his situation getting better or worse moving forward?
waterwolves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:58 PM   #83
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 35,809
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

I expect the situation to potentially get worse but Dak should get better; Zeke could get better. Dez will get worse. OL, who knows but will Free leaving I could see it getting better. Most of their stud OL is young.

I like the 49ers but the Cowboys have a great situation going forward and I hate to admit that.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 09:09 PM   #84
waterwolves
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
waterwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,326
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

1341
1760
1383
1298
970
2097
1495


^^^^^ Those are the rushing yards of arguably the best RB ever (at least running the ball) year to year minus a few years he hardly played because of injury.

Zeke just ran for 1631 in 15 games.


Anybody want to take the over this year?
waterwolves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 10:42 PM   #85
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: #benzo
Posts: 79,752
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

what is your point? hes not elite, but he just had a better year as a rookie than the best rb ever typically did, therefore.........
dkgojackets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 10:47 PM   #86
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

His point has gone from "20 RBs could do what Zeke did" to "20 RBs could run for 1200 yards in the Dallas offense" to "Zeke is only good not great" to "Zeke is overrated because of Dallas' OL" to "I think Zeke might never improve on his rookie year" over the course of the day.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:04 PM   #87
waterwolves
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
waterwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,326
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

My point was Dallas picked the wrong guy at #4 and Zeke is massively overrated right now.
waterwolves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:43 PM   #88
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

It's arguable that they picked the wrong guy; I had Ramsey as the #1 or #2 overall prospect. But I also had Elliott #4, and I don't think he's overrated at all; he's not a physical freak like Fournette, but he does literally everything a RB needs to do at a high level.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:44 PM   #89
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Frankly, though, I'm hoping someone comes in argues that the Dallas OL is so overrated because Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliott are so good.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:48 PM   #90
ut2010
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ut2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Religion in the fack killed my soul
Posts: 36,264
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Also have to consider Dallas was trying to go all in at the time on the Romo/Wittten era. Much better imo to try and be dominant on one side of the ball and slightly worse on the other side then average+ all around. Dallas had a good secondary anyways last year. It was the front seven that held them back.

Think you're insane if you don't think ZEKE was a very good pick in the short term. Going forward in regards to Ramsey, yeah maybe. Could easily see Ramsey getting more on his 2nd contract due to his position and a RB's shelf life but doesn't seem to be what you are arguing.

ZEKE is damn good.
ut2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:52 PM   #91
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

I had to go look up some numbers at Football Outsiders.

PASSING:
Dak Prescott, 3rd in DVOA, 4th in DYAR
QB RUSHING:
Dak Prescott, 2nd in DVOA*, 2nd in DYAR

(* to Kevin Hogan, who had 8 rushes, the minimum to qualify. Prescott had 44.)

RUSHING:
Ezekiel Elliott, 6th in DVOA*, 1st in DYAR
RB RECEIVING:
Ezekiel Elliott, 5th in DVOA, 13th in DYAR

(* - minimum 100 rushes, which puts him behind guys like Mike Gillislee, Bilal Powell, and Derrick Henry. Raise it to 200 minimum rushes and he's 3rd.)

OFFENSIVE LINE:
Dallas
5th in Adjusted Line Yards (3rd power, 5th stuffed, 5th second level yards, 8th open field yards)
13th in Adjusted Sack Rate

Here's something to think about: What if the QB, the RB, and the Offensive Line are all very good?
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:02 AM   #92
wheatrich
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wheatrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,960
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Dal lost 2 OL from last year, free retired, leary signed elsewhere. I guess move collins over then whoever fills in at guard?
wheatrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:03 AM   #93
ut2010
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ut2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Religion in the fack killed my soul
Posts: 36,264
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by nath View Post
Here's something to think about: What if the QB, the RB, and the Offensive Line are all very good?
Get the 1 seed in your conference for that season? :O

Anyways, hope Dallas is able to draft some BEEF on the DL in this draft. Also lost a lot of secondary talent through FA. Need a few bodies there too.
ut2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 07:27 AM   #94
waterwolves
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
waterwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,326
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

The fact it's even debatable after the year Zeke had proves my point.

I'll stop derailing though. Fournette is a higher rated prospect then Zeke. The Jags should take him just to get the ball out of Bortles hands as much as possible. That alone is worth 2-3 more wins a year.

Last edited by waterwolves; 03-20-2017 at 07:36 AM.
waterwolves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 08:40 AM   #95
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: #benzo
Posts: 79,752
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

whats debatable? you saying dumb things like dixon and burkhead could have done what zeke did is not a debate
dkgojackets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 03:25 PM   #96
Namath12
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Namath12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 42,043
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Reuben Foster meeting with the Bears today, presumably asking for directions to Green Bay
Namath12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:41 PM   #97
JimHalpert
Howlpert
 
JimHalpert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beating up John Cena
Posts: 47,863
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by nath View Post
It's arguable that they picked the wrong guy; I had Ramsey as the #1 or #2 overall prospect. But I also had Elliott #4, and I don't think he's overrated at all; he's not a physical freak like Fournette, but he does literally everything a RB needs to do at a high level.
If you redrafted right now in a vacuum (ignoring team needs), what does your top 5 look like?

I ask because I was chatting with someone this morning about if we could redraft last year what our top 5 would be and I went Dak -> Bosa -> Conklin -> Ramsey -> Elliot while the other person argued anything other than Elliot -> Dak or Dak -> Elliot was objectively incorrect.
JimHalpert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:49 PM   #98
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: #benzo
Posts: 79,752
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

well that guy is definitely wrong
dkgojackets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:50 PM   #99
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 64,804
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

I'm not nearly as high on Conklin. If we ignore team needs (and if you're not sold on Wentz), I'd probably go Dak -> Bosa -> Ramsey -> Elliott -> Michael Thomas.

edit: I still think Laremy Tunsil will be an elite LT someday so I'd probably find room for him at 3 or 4. But I'm trying to incorporate rookie seasons in here.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM   #100
JimHalpert
Howlpert
 
JimHalpert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beating up John Cena
Posts: 47,863
re: NFL Draft Discussion 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgojackets View Post
well that guy is definitely wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath View Post
I'm not nearly as high on Conklin. If we ignore team needs (and if you're not sold on Wentz), I'd probably go Dak -> Bosa -> Ramsey -> Elliott -> Michael Thomas.

edit: I still think Laremy Tunsil will be an elite LT someday so I'd probably find room for him at 3 or 4. But I'm trying to incorporate rookie seasons in here.


thanks a lot. Interested to hear why you're not as high on Conklin.
JimHalpert is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online