lol

What on earth are you talking about. Clearly the first group is the only group that matters when talking about "top 10 WRs."

I remember when Jordy Nelson was a top 10 receiver

Chris Givens one side

Tavon Austin the other

ya, and the first group has exactly 5 people

So if you think Crab and Davis are both members of the actual top 10 why did you bring up all that BS about their situation?

given our polar opposite stances on Matt Ryan I think it's fair to say that arguments based on the theoretical need to be expanded on

Guess I'm just curious which two of:

Megatron, Julio, AJG, Dez, Marshall, Gronk, DT, Andre, Fitz, roddy

you'd replace with crab and vernon

gronk since he'll probably never be healthy again

Not surprised to see hawks and niners fans omitting important facts in framing their arguments.

Massie improved a lot last year and Levi Brown, although not good, is much much better than D'Anthony Batiste. And he was out last year. They have a nice pass-blocking RB as well, and a QB that can actually throw should give defenses an additional wrinkle to deal with.


I'm not expecting a 15th ranked line in Y1, but I would be surprised to see them in the bottom 5, let alone historically bad.


Note: Mathieu is looking amazing in camp. I'm attending practice tomorrow and will report back.

EDIT: Cards have three coaches working with O-line per Mike Jurecki.

if last season taught us anything it's that ray has a clear and unbiased view of the cardinals

Which explains why I think the line was WOAT last year and should be much improved this year.

Good observation, Phil.

you also thought they were one of the best teams in the nfl after week 4

At that time, they had the best record in the NFL and were on an 11-2 run. Perfectly reasonable to think that

SRM homering it up HARD itt.

maybe

but still, besides the actually elite WRs, of which there are only a handful, it's still fair to say the rest of the top 10 is interchangeable year to year based more on circumstances surrounding the offense and evolution of that team's offensive system more than it is the WRs ability itself

including the playoffs, crabtree's numbers with kaepernick at QB expanded to 16 games come out to 98 receptions (which would have been 7th in the nfl), 1410 yards (which would have been 5th in the nfl). those numbers certainly would have qualified him as a "top 10 nfl receiver" and those numbers would have been largely a function of the evolution of the 49ers offense and the qb position on the team.

is crabtree a top 10 nfl receiver on talent alone? probably not. i may have said this at some point but if i did i was wrong. is he a top 10 wide receiver based on the situation he would have found himself in til the injury happened? definitely

so now davis takes his place, a guy who up until last year was superior to crabtree in every facet of receiving and importance to the team. their WR depth, even with crabtree gone, is SIGNIFICANTLY better to the depth they had during the super bowl run where moss and walker were the options after davis and crabtree. so given all this, is it truly that unreasonable to expect that davis's production this season as the #1 target will put him among the top 10 receivers in the NFL at the end of the season (barring injury)? i mean, look at the patriots. unless amendola gets hurt (which almost certainly he will), he'll put up numbers that border on the insane

I thought in post #105 you agreed that

is completely meaningless. Why are you bringing it up again?

i have the right as an american to defend myself against charges of being a homer

Only a few guys transcend their QB situation. Obvious guys who play for top level QBs are typically overrated (Demarius, Welker, Jennings, Colston). Only guys I think that really transcend right now are Calvin, AJ, Fitz (even then he's struggled with turd QBs), Green, Julio (maybe). After that most of the elite guys are very QB/situation dependent.

I would say Demarius, Welker, Colston, Crab, Hicks, Cruz tier of WR are all pretty situation dependent.

DT is clearly better than the rest of that group imo. He transcended with TEBOW!

It's ok if you are. Being a 49er's homer is the biggest honor in sports.

Shameless brag:

Clearly. 62nd in DVOA and 70% in VOA with Tebow--then again it was year 1 or 2?--Denver WRs were killing it with neck beard. I guess not being dead last is impressive. Crab was top ~40 with Alex in 2011.

what is a chris givens

rams 2nd year WR that has some hype in the stl area

They have 3 coaches for the o-line I believe.

Defense should be solid an possibly improved over last year but DCord still worries me.

Offense will def be improved. Better coach, better QB, better o-line, better WRs, better RBs.

Big question will still be o-line and new coaches/system. Obv division is brutal but Im thinking CK will regress and Seattle prob wins division.