fairly adorable that TZ thinks wiggins still has potential. guy is a bust and i was 100% right about him:

https://deanondraft.com/2016/11/29/a...ins-is-a-bust/

Dean!

Your description reminded me of Larry Hughes.

I've been driving that bus and getting ridiculed for it, but the numbers don't lie. He crushes the eye-test on a nightly basis, but it's not showing up in the difference he makes on the court for good reason. Sooner or later he's going to have to turn his skills and talent into something that makes the team better, and not only is there no guarantee that he will, but the numbers and intangibles make me feel that he won't.

I forgot about Larry Hughes. He had that one awesome year for the Wiz that got him paid before turning back into regular Larry Hughes.

Of course the numbers are a better indicator of truth than the eye test. Nobody here actually knows how to eye test whether a player helps a team win basketball games over a large sample. They only know how to eye test that he jumps super high which is not the part of his ability that is in question.

Anthony Bennett is a bust, Wiggins is a more than serviceable nba player who will command a generous salary. Bennett is barely hanging on in the league, Wiggins will be in the league a decade at least if he doesn't get injured.

Bust=/helps a team win

pretty clear dean is saying that he is a *relative* bust

1) The fact that Embiid was on the board makes Wiggins a much more costly #1 overall choice than Bennett, even if Bennett was a completely braindead pick.

2) Wiggins fell shorter of expectations than Bennett, who nobody expected to be good whatsoever.

3) I didn't say biggest bust of all time. There are room for multiple busts on this planet!

My gut instinct is that young teams usually aren't patient enough when they have a bunch of young talent(i.e. Orlando trading for Ibaka instead of letting things play out for another year with Oladipo/Payton), but I think you guys(Dean especially) make a convincing case against Wiggins.

Also speaking of Orlando, I'm still full aboard the Aaron Gordon train. He needs to be playing PF and the Magic are ****ing things up horribly, but the guy is gonna be a stud. I'm not worried one bit about his slow start to the year.


Seadood, Jamal Murray is the first Nugget that you've obsessed over where I think I totally agree. He is smashing the eye test, and I would def take him over Booker(whose stats are much worse than I expected before looking them up just now).

The PER numbers are weird I'll admit, especially for a guy averaging 22ppg. His rebounding/assists/steals/blocks are all shockingly low. I think it's more important that he's shooting 40% from 3 this year than I'd be worried about his per though. He's a 6-8 monster and a top 5 athlete itl- but at 21 he's a baby. I doubt a 28 year old Wiggins will struggle rebounding, etc as he matures. It may in fact be that he's not an all star level yet though

Bust relative to where he was drafted and the overall hype is maybe a slight reach. Bust compared to what people actually think of him could be true though.

My biggest issues aren't the ball-stopping, it's the fact that he's built like a prototype yet rarely manages to get his hands on any balls when playing defense. Either it's an effort thing (worrisome) or a fundamental thing (more worrisome). His inability to get back on D can be fixed though.

40% from 3 over this sample means relatively nothing, although it's encouraging that he's actually taking more attempts right now.

I think he's going to end up being a headache player--the type of guy that letting go of is hard to come to grips with, but keeping him has you scratching your head when you see him on the court. Like I said before, I'd prefer someone like Otto Porter + assets, who you at least know has a more prototypical skillset for his position and should mesh better with the person who should be backpacking the offense, kAt.

I just don't see a path to him being on a championship team, regardless of where he ranks in your teams "best player" pecking order. His value diminishes when he doesn't have the ball, and it's not that great when he does. Perhaps he's suited to be a sixth man, but it seems ludicrous to make him such given all that we've seen..... I would just cut bait, get a haul, and make it someone else's problem.

Minny would be so much better with a 3 on offense that was stud guarding 3/4's.

I wouldn't say it means relatively nothing. He's attempting 4 threes a game which is twice what he was previously shooting. He had a 30% average on 2a/g, now he's at 39.4% at 4 attempts. He's clearly working on it, we went through the same thing with kawhi last year.

Well done Dean.

It's ridiculous to make this proclamation at this point in his career.

Has anyone gotten Seadood's take on Wiggins or Murray? Really curious tbh.

Murray >>>>>> kaT

If only the Wolves could've gotten future superstars Dante Exum and Marcus Smart from Dean's top tier, then we'd be great. Alas, c'est la vie.

lol Dean still ****ing that chicken. sad!

Really low on LaVine too. Looks like Dean missed more than he hit in 2014 (I remember him doing better in 2015). Always appreciate the work though.

Dean where do you stick Wiggins in a redraft today? Around 7?

yeah def agree. bennett shattered the mould for what busting can be and needs to be recognised as eminent in his field

wiggin's hype wasn't actually that otherworldly at draft time, embiid likely would've gone 1 had he not been injured. you could argue wig has been a below ave #1 pick but he's not breaking any records


i liked the article for some persepctive but don't agree with the headline

NBA lifer and consensus top five coach Thibs refused to include Wiggins in a package with Dunn to get Jimmy Butler this past offseason. Total bust city.

Ya, Wiggins got traded along with a 1st round pick and more for Love. That's not above average #1 overall.

Also, Dean does some great stuff, but then throws so much of the goodwill he's built up away on things like hating Wiggins

I don't know how throwing the numbers out there that completely back up your theory is hating on Wiggins. It would be one thing if he made the stats up, but he literally threw up every one of the most-used, most readily available numbers to illustrate his point.

I think Dean has had some real misses but Wiggins wasn't one of them. What he was wrong about though was why he wasn't going to be great, and ironically the player he thought Andrew would be (3D guy) is probably an easier, better player to build around.

I think you go

Tier 1: Embiid
Tier 2: Gordon/Capela/Jokic

Then Wiggins is in tier 3 with Smart, Hood, Nurkic, Jabari, Randle, LaVine, SloMo, TJ Warren, Exum. So probably somewhere in the 7-10 range. I err on the side of pessimism bc he is so one dimensional and not elite at his one dimension.

And yeah I had bricks galore. I wanted to see if I could make rankings that look far sharper than consensus, but I think if I did it would be sheer luck. FWIW Hood is the ranking that stings the most- that one still blows my mind today. Even with the aid hindsight I still don't see the perspective that he was a top 25 prospect in the class and I watched him a ton in college.

What? I made an entire writeup comparing him to Rudy Gay and questioning his defense.

https://deanondraft.com/2014/07/19/s...ndrew-wiggins/

I was pretty much the only one who wasn't saying "at the very worst he's an amazing 3 + D" guy. If I felt that was true he's ezpz in my top 3.