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NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2)

05-17-2015 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzwien
Playing an extra 5-10 minutes of basketball will not wear a fit professional athlete down. It's ridiculous how people even think that. Every single workout in the off-season is harder and longer (giggity) than what they exert during a game. If we're talking about FFD or Raymond Felton, then yeah, playing extra minutes will probably kill them.

The only reason Lebron should sit out is if his replacement can produce better than him in his fatigued state. There is never a situation where this is true. Every team in the playoffs should be playing their starters 42+ minutes. There is tons of stoppage time during games and you get at least 1 day in between games. If your players can't pull that off you need to hire some better trainers for their workouts.

This series should be a bloodbath with starters putting in huge minutes, but Lebron will probably be the only one manning up.
wat
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzwien
Playing an extra 5-10 minutes of basketball will not wear a fit professional athlete down. It's ridiculous how people even think that. Every single workout in the off-season is harder and longer (giggity) than what they exert during a game. If we're talking about FFD or Raymond Felton, then yeah, playing extra minutes will probably kill them.

The only reason Lebron should sit out is if his replacement can produce better than him in his fatigued state. There is never a situation where this is true. Every team in the playoffs should be playing their starters 42+ minutes. There is tons of stoppage time during games and you get at least 1 day in between games. If your players can't pull that off you need to hire some better trainers for their workouts.

This series should be a bloodbath with starters putting in huge minutes, but Lebron will probably be the only one manning up.

This is really false. There's plenty of evidence that is wears down an athlete. It's not that they will be tired necessarily. It's the amount of stress they put on their bodies, which is why you are seeing a ton of injuries right now at the end of the season. Workouts might be physically tiring, but they don't put even close to the same amount of stress on their bodies.

People think this because it's true. And hell, even players do get physically tired. I don't think you realize the amount of energy it takes in a game that means a lot. Physically and mentally.
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzwien
The only reason Lebron should sit out is if his replacement can produce better than him in his fatigued state.

...or if Lebron can produce better on 5-10 mins rest than in his fatigued state...
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
Is Mozgov a great defender? I think he's decent but I have never seen anyone argue he's great. Noah missed multiple wide open layups in the series. It's chicken and egg but if Mozgov was on the floor mostly when Noah was, Noah could be just as responsible for those on/off numbers.
The Bulls ORtg with Noah on the floor was 100.4. The Bulls ORtg with Mozgov on the floor was 91.7. I'd say that Mozgov had quite a bit to do with it.
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05-17-2015 , 03:50 PM
Kind of doubt COTY Bud will actually extend the starters past 40 mins like others have predicted. Even in must win games this postseason he hasn't been apt to do that.

Hawks in 7. Then get to play 4 games against GS. Such is life.
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05-17-2015 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffRas22
Here's the thing, defending the hawks when they're at their best is ****ing exhausting and if it's not exhausting then you're simply not defending them well. This whole idea that Lebron won't be as tired or limited offensively bc the Hawks don't have a Butler is silly. The Hawks move the ball extremely well and your defensive unit has to be on a string with crisp, well-timed rotations, or you're going to get torched. If Lebron crushes offensively and the games are close, high scoring ones, then he's probably being lazy on D and the Hawks are probably getting good looks bc of it. If Lebron struggles offensively and the games are close, low scoring ones, then he's probably using a lot of energy on D and the Hawks aren't generating as good of looks. If Lebron crushes offensively and the Cavs roll it means he's probably just GOATing on both sides.

Basically the Cavs will go as far LBJ takes them. Hard-hitting analysis I know.
Good post, and kind of echoes what I said above about Millsapp isos.

If Cavs want to go small with Bron at the 4, Hawks should absolutely feed Millsapp post isos over and over. Like half their possessions at least. Not because it's super efficient, but because it will wear out Bron. It's near-impossible to defend an all-star's iso game over and over AND also carry the load Bron is going to have to carry on offense (especially with Kyrie hobbled/out, think how big that load is going to be). Bron would have to be super-human to do that.

Now, maybe Bron just goes full-super-human mode and is able to shut down tons of isos and dominate 90% of Cavs offensive possessions. Ok, if he plays like that you were always going to lose. but more realistic is that you punish Bron in the post with Millsapp and his offense will suffer, and Bron's the only offense they've got right now. This is the heart of why I don't think the Cavs can go small until Kyrie is non-hobbled.
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05-17-2015 , 05:26 PM
LeBron would have no trouble defending Millsap. He's bigger, longer, faster, stronger. That plan would be terrible because Millsap isos vs. LeBron would be like .6 ppp. It wouldn't matter if it would wear LeBron down because the game would be a blowout by then.
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05-17-2015 , 05:47 PM
yeah, feeding isos to exploit a "mismatch" is generally a really bad plan unless you have someone like Curry/Harden/LeBron
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05-17-2015 , 06:23 PM
HAWKS should just play HAWKS ball with lots of movement and cuts and screens and get easy shots (and make more than 30% of those) and wear out the Cavs...they do that and they win more often than not
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05-17-2015 , 06:32 PM
I really think that whichever team wins 4 games first will be in the Finals !!!
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05-17-2015 , 07:15 PM
If ATL wins this series it will be the first finals with no Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/LeBron since 1999.
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05-17-2015 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
If ATL wins this series it will be the first finals with no Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/LeBron since 1999.
Or the first without Duncan Shaq Kobe LeBron Hakeem or MJ since 1990!
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT_fold
Or the first without Duncan Shaq Kobe LeBron Hakeem or MJ since 1990!
Yeah I was gonna throw that in. Add Isiah/Magic/Bird and you go back to '79 when everyone was coked up.
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
when ATL wins this series it will be the first finals with no Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/LeBron since 1999.

Fixed it preemptively
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
Is Mozgov a great defender? I think he's decent but I have never seen anyone argue he's great. Noah missed multiple wide open layups in the series. It's chicken and egg but if Mozgov was on the floor mostly when Noah was, Noah could be just as responsible for those on/off numbers.
2nd best rim protector of playoffs (per Seth):

http://cf.datawrapper.de/Gx44C/19/

People were loling at him a lot in the Chicago series because of his offense, but he had a huge, huge impact defensively.
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05-17-2015 , 10:36 PM
Do they normalize that against the opponent's normal play?

The problem with playoff leaders is that everyone plays different teams

Are his numbers good because Jonas and Noah were going against him? It looks like those numbers are just compared to NBA average big

How were Jonas and Noah's offense compared to NBA average big in the weeks pre-playoffs?

After all, Henson is #4 and he only played against the Bulls...perhaps it's not a coincidence that the two teams that played against Bulls have top 4 players in rim protection this postseason
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05-17-2015 , 10:56 PM
In the regular season, Korver shot 49.2% on 6.0 three-point attempts per game. JR Smith shot 38.3% on 6.1 attempts (39% on 7.3 attempts in Cleveland).

In the playoffs, Korver is 35.0% on 7.9 attempts, while Smith is 35.1% on 7.1 attempts.

Any guesses as to who shoots more threes between the two and who shoots them at a higher percentage?
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
LeBron would have no trouble defending Millsap. He's bigger, longer, faster, stronger. That plan would be terrible because Millsap isos vs. LeBron would be like .6 ppp. It wouldn't matter if it would wear LeBron down because the game would be a blowout by then.
LeBron wouldn't get worn down by defending Millsap iso.

What would wear him down is having to defend roll man on PnR and fighting Millsap on offensive glass. If Horford pulls Moz or TT out of the paint, LeBron can't take possession off as he's, a gimpy Kyrie, and whichever of Shump/Smiff isn't guarding Korver will need to rebound like crazy.
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-17-2015 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hard2tel
Kind of doubt COTY Bud will actually extend the starters past 40 mins like others have predicted. Even in must win games this postseason he hasn't been apt to do that.

Hawks in 7. Then get to play 4 games against GS. Such is life.
Cavs should get better as the series unfolds as, most importantly, kyrie gets healthier with time, but also the team adapts and gels to the new loveless style.

And also, goat lebron is the best and most clutch player of all time and simply will not lose a game 7.

So ya , i think the hawks win in like 5, or the cavs take it if goes longer. I would not be surprised to see the hawks rattle off 3 straight, but i think as the series gets deeper, the cavs get an advantage.

I also think that BLATT is pretty damn good at ADJUSTMENTS.
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05-18-2015 , 12:05 AM
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05-18-2015 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Good post, and kind of echoes what I said above about Millsapp isos.

If Cavs want to go small with Bron at the 4, Hawks should absolutely feed Millsapp post isos over and over. Like half their possessions at least. Not because it's super efficient, but because it will wear out Bron. It's near-impossible to defend an all-star's iso game over and over AND also carry the load Bron is going to have to carry on offense (especially with Kyrie hobbled/out, think how big that load is going to be). Bron would have to be super-human to do that.

Now, maybe Bron just goes full-super-human mode and is able to shut down tons of isos and dominate 90% of Cavs offensive possessions. Ok, if he plays like that you were always going to lose. but more realistic is that you punish Bron in the post with Millsapp and his offense will suffer, and Bron's the only offense they've got right now. This is the heart of why I don't think the Cavs can go small until Kyrie is non-hobbled.

I think this is just completely wrong.

1) LeBron has pretty great ball denial skills. It will be very tough getting him the ball, and you'll waste a bunch of time for the first 5 possessions screwing that up

2) LeBron is bigger than Sap, and would probably just crush him. LBJ's main problem is with people blowing past him because he dgaf. I think Sap isos would lead to big leads for Cavs and they would ditch it very quickly.

It's a semi-lol stat, but his net PER is best at the PF position. Holding opponents to 13.4 PER, his best position defensively this season along with his best position offensively.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CLE11.HTM
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05-18-2015 , 04:04 PM
Food for thought: ATL +185 to win the series on 5Ds might be the free-est money bet in the history of the NBA (or at least sinse Pistons were a 6-1 underdog against LA in 04) and YET it's a bad bet!!! Because there's a better bet to make:

Spoiler:
Quote:
309985624-2 5/18/15 3:47pm $500.00 $1,525.00 Pending 5/19/15 9:00pm Props Basketball 25357 Golden State beats Atlanta +305* vs Any other result


Time to get rich boys. Load up. You're welcome.
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05-18-2015 , 07:55 PM
that is quite free
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05-18-2015 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT
Cavs in 4. Will completely expose this fraudulent Hawks team.
I don't think it'll be 4, and I'd rather see the Hawks win, but you have the right idea here. Hell, I thought all year that ATL would be a 2nd-rd out tbh
NBA ECF 2015 : Atlanta Hawks (1) vs Cleveland Cavaliers (2) Quote
05-18-2015 , 10:56 PM
Whatever it is that happened to the Hawks, they've been playing pretty meh since like January. Any analysis of this series that doesn't explain why that happened and how they can stop it is incomplete imo.

Therefore, Cavs in 6
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