If he shot 85% from the line I'd be a lot more ready to accept the who cares if it goes in defense. Shooting 67% meh. Also obv there's more than just %. Idk how much this applies to Ball, but there's still scouting involved in how quick and easy a player can get his shot off.

no way. rondo would routinely pass up layups for long 2's. he was a super cerebral player but his IQ was not elite bc he would routinely make trash decisions.

there's lots of evidence that Lonzo's BBIQ is elite. he smashes eFG% records for freshmen PG's, he elevated UCLA from an average-ish team eFG% to the best in 12 years, and he does this while never turning it over.

if you watch him play you see that he never overdribbles and finds open guys in their hotspots super fast. he even knows that 3 > 2 for teammates and all of UCLA's shooters saw big spikes in 3PA rate.

most importantly he has the size + skill to take advantage of his IQ, as he can make NBA 3's, difficult passes with accuracy, and he's a great finisher. and say what you will about his handle but he does all of these things well off the dribble.

so overall there's too much unique value stemming from his BBIQ to fail. esp since he has height to guard SG's and is elite moving off the ball, so worst case he's some weird hybrid of danny green and steve nash.

This exactly.

A somewhat busted analogy is you don't want little league kids drawing tons of walks and seeing lots of pitches.

Fultz has been playing the same way his entire life. It's a lot more difficult to COACH EM UP than you guys are making it seem. Lonzo already gets a lot of this intuitively but there's still a ton of value someone like Brad can add to him and with him there is no question hed be receptive and understanding of it.

Not a knock against Fultz because Fultz doesn't even need to change the way he plays.

Fultz free throw is lower than Ball, fwiw. But yes that is troubling.

A third of Balls 3's were from Nba distance.

Coaching getting unwarranted credit I the thread. My favorite is the guy that said anyone can learn how to shoot.

Let's talk about Jonathan Isaac

i think he's pretty sick. how many other players can guard the perimeter and protect the rim? the list is like...marion, ak47, josh smith, and draymond. pretty much guarantees eliteness if you aren't offensive aids like smith.

Yeah I'd rather Isaac over JJ. He's also probably better than Tatum most of the time but Tatum's upside is pretty spicy. Isaac probably has the third best career in this draft somewhat often.

I can see an argument for Tatum at #3. Being that young + big + versatile at scoring w/ 85% FT's is pretty nice.

For some reason I don't believe in him that hard, but if he progresses well he will be super good in the NBA

His ceiling is basically Carmelo anyway he's still overrated as a prospect imo.

Think my overall rankings are:

1. Lonzo
2. Fultz
3. Fox
4. Isaac
5. Tatum
6. Markkanen
7. Jackson
8. FRANK
9. Smith
10. Whoever

I guess its Monk by default but I think Monk is a turd. Obviously the Knicks are a lock to end up with him.

lolfox 3.

Hearing rumors Suns promised Isaac at 4. Feel like Tatum may fall out of the top 5 but feel like that's a mistake. I think top 6 in this draft are huge then a decent drop off. Maybe 7 if you include Monk

Zach Collins gotta be on that list, think he's better than Markkanen, Jackson clearly should be higher as well & no clue why you would overrate Isaac where other than his defense is meh.

I feel like Zach Collins is a good guy to stash at 8

After Ball/Fultz I'd say Isaac, Jackson, Tatum, Lauri, Fox all in same tier then I have DSJ, Monk, and Frank as frauds.

Collins nicely slides in below the tier 2 guys and above the frauds. He does a bunch of nice things but also can't get too excited for an 18 mpg guy who wasnt 5* and has questionable instincts.

Seeing a lot of Boston wanting Tatum. Maybe they will move back again.

Sounds like one of Ball or Jackson may fall into 4 or 5 slot

Monk is legitimately a 6'2 SG who can't really create or pass. Sounds awesome.

I Feel like if Zach Collins was black he'd be picked higher. Isaac played only 26mins himself & pretty much had worse #'s overall, they may even play the same position(p.f) in the nba.



^^ He claim he can guard some nba guards, not sure about that, but i do think people are underrating his athletic ability & his shot making, think he becomes a really nice player in the nba who's able to play either 4 or 5 & shoot 3's & defend the rim.

Isaac had better #'s than Collins on top of the ability to play the perimeter which makes him clearly superior

I'd be surprised if C's and Lakers pass on Ball. Jackson OTOH could fall all the way to 6 or 7 if Tatum/Isaac/Fox go 3-5 and then Magic don't want an Aaron Gordon twin.

Also can't rebound or defend. Probably should be ranked below OG who at least is interesting with freaky tools and defense.

Jonothan isaac per 40min #'s= 18pts, 12rbs, 2.3blocks, 25 per
Zach Collins per 40#'s= 23pts, 13.6rbs, 4.1blocks & 31 per

#'s are clearly in Collins favour, as i said, think he's underrated in this draft & a guy like Isaac is overrated, isaac is pretty much the biggest boom or bust prospect in this draft, has a fairly low floor & a high ceiling, like collins better personally.

Draft models still rate Isaac higher bc better assist and steals. Collins assist:TOV ratio blows.

Not to mention more minutes vs better comp and Isaac was #7 RSCI vs Collins #28 which makes it riskier to give too much credit to Collins small sample at Gonzaga.

I thought Collins was staying another year? If Danny can work deals to land Fox and Collins I'm all for that.

Sounds like you should talk to the kings about #5 and #10 picks.


I really think Fox / Buddy Heild could be a nice young back court pairing, then use 10 on like Lauri or Monk, a floor spacer. Monk would make that a small core though with Buddy having to play the 3.

I would like to see Isaac paired with Towns in Minnesota.

Other than taking Lonzo, Ainge trading 3 for 5 + 10 is the only way he can redeem himself for that deal.

Still are Kangz really lol enough to do that? 10 is such a big price to pay up with nobody even rumored to take Fox 3 or 4. If I'm the Celtics I'd throw in Jaylen Brown to get it done.

Oh man if Denver could somehow pair up Isaac with Jokic, that's like the most perfect fit for us.

Why'd we have to win all those games ?!?!