It's hard to think of many true NBA stars who weren't a no shooting big man like Rodman or Ben Wallace who played for a genuinely bad college team. For the most part a future NBA star guard or forward is enough to get a college team 20 wins and into the late rounds in tournaments. Think Dwayne Wade.

6"5 PG with a 7" wingspan
Smartest guy in the draft
Great Work ethic, approved by NBA scouts
Best defensive PG in the draft
Plays in Pro bball not in lol NCAA
Youngest top prospect
No red flag

And most importantly you draft a player for his future not for his past

Thats why Giannis/Gobert/Frank/intriguing euros are better picks than NCAA frauds like michael Beasley or Trey Burke

Those posts have me hyped for FRANK to the Knicks

A college prospect who isn't even going #1 has peak rondo as his floor now. i thought TZ learnt better than making those absurd statements about non-nba players by now

Well he's likely already better than Rondo has ever been so it's not much of a leap.

Kidd also lucky he came into the league when he did. If he came in now he's not winning mvps and dominating without shooting.

He's a better shooter than Kidd

Yeah-- you can't just bash his usg without checking da eFG%

What other past freshman PG prospect is even close in NCAA eFG? CP3 was 57, steph 57.9-- Lonzo is 10 points higher than them. He could easily jack mid-range shots to increase his usage while still having a pretty good eFG, but instead he would take elite shots or find an elite shot for his teammates.

Consequently UCLA had the best team eFG% for any NCAA team since 2005, and this is for a trash coach who has never had a team with a top 20 eFG in any season. You can't knock him for not shooting more when he never misses for a death machine offense.

If you compare Lonzo and Kidd's freshman per 40 stats, points and assists are about the same but Kidd had 2 extra TOVs and 3 extra bricks.

Kidd was better on D but Lonzo's offense is on a whole different level.

It's difficult to say whether Washington shot poorly entirely because they're awful shooters, or whether a more dynamic playmaker, more adept at getting the offense humming and getting guys the ball where they like it could have improved their awful eFG.

What we do know: UCLA's offensive efficiency was awful two years ago, and elite last year. The same guys who shot at decent efficiency in 2015-16, shot at a much higher efficiency last year. Anyone who closely watches the tape can see how Ball is constantly doing things with and without the ball to increase efficiency (pushing the ball for early offense; instantly finding shooters off screens, perfectly timed lobs to rim-runners). One underrated aspect of his presence: the team jacked a lot more threes.

3PA per 100 possessions last year vs this

Hamilton 7.9 > 10.1
Alford 9.6 > 12.1
Holiday 5.1 > 7.3

Lonzo jacked up the pace too. He literally may have the best BBIQ of all time, and may be the best passer of all time.

I'm fairly convinced that if he switches places with Fultz, UCLA gets worse and UW gets better

I think Lonzo has a chance to be great even on the Lakers. I wouldn't be shocked if he's better than Kidd at some point. Kidd definitely wouldn't be almost winning MVPs nowadays but he still would be a great player. Shooting wise, Lonzo should easily be better, defensively it's really doubtful since Kidd was elite.

Looking at Kidd's career, amazing that he was 5 time all nba 1st team (1 time second team), 10 time all-star and 9 time all NBA D. With that being said, the PG era at the time was weak but he was definitely instrumental in his team's success

Kidd Is being underrated a lot in these discussions. He's one of the best ever. Hell he was really really good even recently when he was old as ****. He was great for Dallas.

+1

If the Knicks draft Malik Monk instead I'm going to be irate af.

Why take the #1 Euro when you can have the 8th best American.

First they came for Barkley, now Kidd. Calm the **** down millennials.

Yeah I'm not hating on Kidd, and he prob woulda learned to shoot sooner if his career depended on it. Just saying he would have been more intelligently defended, especially in the playoffs.

Yeah Kidd was awesome for a long time. Even when he was like 40 on the Knicks he was still making elite defensive plays constantly.

Fultz had a usage AND assist rate over 30%. Thats absurd he was the entire team. Ball might be a better playmaker but its not like Fultz isnt a damn good playmaker in his own right. More importantly Fultz can create his own shot. Over 70% of Balls 3s are assisted. Fultz can do more then just pass the ball. Also a good chance when hes not having such a absurd usage hes going to be a good defender like he showed in the high school all star games.

Its not a surprise UCLA's entire team was better they added 3 first round nba draft picks. Any team in the NCAA that adds a top 5 recruiting class with 3 first round picks will improve a ton.

Also the Ball to Kidd comparisons might be ok on the offensive end but Jason Kidd was a great defender. Jason Kidd would not of been anywhere near the player he was without his defense. Ball will not be a good defender he doesnt play D at all.

Another thing is Ball is coached up big time. His dad is super coach which makes a big diff on where hes at on his development compared to Fultz who didnt even start playign varsity basketball till his Junior year of highschool. I think hes got more room to grow then Lonzo. I like Lonzo hes a good prospect but the more i research it i dont see how hes on Fultz level.

I think Kidd had the highest bball IQ of all-time which is what made him great above all else. And I think Lonzo has a lot of that.

i know this is hot taek city but i question fultz mainly for the decision to go to washington because he knew he'd get his shots up

its a different situation than simmons going to lsu since his godfather was on staff

but at the same time fultz busted his ass to go from high school JV as a sophomore to a top 5 player in his class a year later

Where'd you get some of your info? Fultz played JV at dematha his sophomore year and likely started playing basketball a long time before that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markelle_Fultz

I assume he grew up in the US not Africa and grew up playing ball.

Additionally, dematha is an elite basketball school. Odds are if fultz went to a normal hs he would have been on varsity sooner.