NASCAR 2012 thread - Page 4 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by __w__

The guy just isn't anything special. If you took most of the Nationwide no-namers, gave them Jr's equipment and support on a week to week basis, they would obtain the same level of success. Jr is a hack.

First of all "not anything special"/=hack

Second of all, the rest of your post is rubbish. Sam Hornish and Juan Pablo Montoya were superstars in indy and f1, both had great equipment, and either one would kill to have the success junior has had. There is no evidence based argument that supports the contention that junior is a hack. You guys are just wrong.

LirvA · 02-26-2012, 01:37 PM

AJ ready to get er done

LirvA · 02-26-2012, 01:39 PM

hell yeah they're drying the track

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LirvA

duuuuuuuuuude Mikey's up there with Darrel

did he retire?

he mostly retired last year

Bored5000 · 02-26-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky_Bobby

Junior's won 18 races and contended for the championship. Most of those wins came in equipment that was not on the Hendrick level.

LOL How many of those 18 wins have been on the plate tracks? Come on now, DEI may not have been on the Hendrick level, but their plate program was as good as any team out there. It's not as though Michael Waltrip was just outdriving everyone on pure talent. Four career wins in 766 career starts, and they were all in DEI cars at the plate tracks.

Any team that can make Michael Waltrip a multiple time winner is no field filling slouch.

LirvA · 02-26-2012, 01:49 PM

damnit it's raining again

LirvA · 02-26-2012, 01:49 PM

Mikey very nearly won at New Hampshire too in his last season at DEI. I wanted him to win that race so ****ing bad you have no idea.

**cwicemvp12** · 02-26-2012, 01:53 PM

Man they better run this today, I have class and **** tomorrow.

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000

LOL How many of those 18 wins have been on the plate tracks? Come on now, DEI may not have been on the Hendrick level, but their plate program was as good as any team out there. It's not as though Michael Waltrip was just outdriving everyone on pure talent. Four career wins in 766 career starts, and they were all in DEI cars at the plate tracks.

Any team that can make Michael Waltrip a multiple time winner is no field filling slouch.

Junior has won 7 plate races, 7 intermediate, and 4 short track races.

He got most of those in about a 7 year span. Nobody with a name other than Dale Earnhardt Jr. would be accused of being a hack with that record.

This argument is getting silly, but it's raining so it provides some entertainment at least.

Bored5000 · 02-26-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky_Bobby

Junior has won 7 plate races, 7 intermediate, and 4 short track races.

He got most of those in about a 7 year span. Nobody with a name other than Dale Earnhardt Jr. would be accused of being a hack with that record.

This argument is getting silly, but it's raining so it provides some entertainment at least.

Oh, I didn't say he was a hack. But playing the equipment wasn't top notch card is weak when DEI's plate program made even a substantially below average driver like Michael Waltrip a multiple time winner when he never won for any other team or at any non-plate track in his career at the Cup level.

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Oh, I didn't say he was a hack. But playing the equipment wasn't top notch card is weak when DEI's plate program made even a substantially below average driver like Michael Waltrip a multiple time winner when he never won for any other team or at any non-plate track in his career at the Cup level.

Yeah, but it's not as good of an argument as you think. DEI was great on plate tracks but Jr. was the only one who drove for that team to win regularly anywhere else. DEI was never on the level of Hendrick or Roush on anything other than plate tracks, and their dominance on those tracks was short lived.

Obviously, the flip side is that Jr. hasn't done well with Hendrick equipment, but from about 2007 - 2010 Jeff Gordon couldn't win with Hendrick equipment either.

It's ****ing hard to win in the Cup series, period. Junior's detractors can only reasonably argue that he isn't great, it simply cannot be argued (effectively) that he isn't good.

rmthawk64 · 02-26-2012, 02:35 PM

How late will they go before they call it today?

Bored5000 · 02-26-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky_Bobby

Obviously, the flip side is that Jr. hasn't done well with Hendrick equipment, but from about 2007 - 2010 Jeff Gordon couldn't win with Hendrick equipment either.

It's ****ing hard to win in the Cup series, period. Junior's detractors can only reasonably argue that he isn't great, it simply cannot be argued (effectively) that he isn't good.

And again, you are comparing a driver that has 85 wins and four championships with a driver that has 18 wins and zero championsips. Those two careers are not similar in the least.

If Junior had a different last name, he wouldn't get the scrutiny he does. (he also might not even be in Cup if it wasn't for that last name) But when you are the son of a seven-time Cup champion and arguably the greatest NASCAR driver ever, being in mere contention for perhaps two championships in 12-13 years on the Cup level is massively underachieving in the eyes of most people. Barring some miraculous tunaround here in his late 30s, it seems pretty evident that Junior is never going to win even one Cup championship.

Kyle Petty was no Richard Petty, either, but even Kyle never drove for the best team in the sport and underachieved.

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 02:49 PM

They have lights, gotta believe it could go pretty late. Guy on TV just said Nascar will make another announcement at 4 EST.

Ricky_Bobby · 02-26-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000

And again, you are comparing a driver that has 85 wins and four championships with a driver that has 18 wins and zero championsips. Those two careers are not similar in the least.

They are quite similar in that both were successful drivers who have had a slump recently despite being in good equipment.

Quote:

If Junior had a different last name, he wouldn't get the scrutiny he does. (he also might not even be in Cup if it wasn't for that last name) But when you are the son of a seven-time Cup champion and arguably the greatest NASCAR driver ever, being in mere contention for perhaps two championships in 12-13 years on the Cup level is massively underachieving in the eyes of most people. Barring some miraculous tunaround here in his late 30s, it seems pretty evident that Junior is never going to win even one Cup championship.

Kyle Petty was no Richard Petty, either, but even Kyle never drove for the best team in the sport and underachieved.

I don't need to refute any of this, because I'm not arguing that Jr. is on the level of Dale Sr. or Jeff Gordon. That Jr. has underachieved in the eyes of people who expect him to be as good as his dad is certainly true. It is also true that if Jr. never ran another race, he would still have a better record than the vast majority of drivers who have raced in the Cup series.

The argument was not that jr. has underachieved compared to what was expected of him. The argument was that Jr. is a hack and lacks driving ability. Nothing you've said supports the idea that jr. is a hack.