You know who would have impressed Tampa Bay area writers? Bob Lemon. Pitching to contact is a lost art.

Mussina always had trouble pitching at the Trop. If he can't handle Tampa, what makes us think he deserves Cooperstown?

This entirely brand new poster has promise.

He hasn't been good in the World Series, but I think any do-or-die game is a big spot. Check out his work in the Game 5s of 2012 and 2013 Division Series.

I do agree with this. I think some people view wins as a negative, like they couldn't possibly have done anything to deserve that win.

Not that it's the same, but I played catcher my first two years in college, and I don't think I ever called pitches based on the score, and don't think I have ever heard that in any of the camps I ever went to. Obviously not the same, maybe the big leagues are different.

I guess it's kind of a classic "peak vs compiler" argument, but who do you think has a BETTER hall of fame case, Halladay or Mussina?

Brand new? Has had an account since 2014 and has two other posts, one baseball, one NBA.

which one is the compiler?

well Mussina pitched full seasons through age 39 and had a worse peak than Halladay, so...

oh ok, cause one had a 0 WAR in his last 2 seasons, and the other had a 5.2 in his last season, so I was confused.

So I looked at some numbers.

	IP	FIP	WHIP	K/9	AS	CY	WS	bWAR
Mussina	3652.2	3.57	1.223	7.1	5	0	0	82.7
Halladay	2749.1	3.39	1.178	6.9	8	2	0	65.6
K. Brown	3256.1	3.33	1.222	6.6	6	0	1	68.5

I include Kevin Brown because he had a Hall of Very Good career, got 2.1% of the vote his one year on the ballot, and dropped off into obscurity.

By almost every statistical measure, Kevin Brown was a vastly superior pitcher to, say, Jack Morris, but that's a whole other post. And he never sniffed the Hall.

I think the only thing that makes me lean Moose > Halladay in this exercise is giving Moose some credit for being in the AL East his whole career.

But my point is Mussina wasn't THAT much better than Kevin Brown.

This is a completely unfair characterization.

While it's true that a win is worth less than a no decision or a loss, it isn't so bad as to be a negative.

20.7% more war in 12.2% more innings

Seems THAT much better to me

Mussina has been trending upward in voting, up to 43.6%. Just looking at the 2016 voting, I guess Trevor Hoffman will probably get in next year. I hate to sound like Mad Dog Russo, but the guy never got a big out in his life lol.

Fist pump snap call trade for Cubs.

It is not about pitch choice to me, it is more about the location change. A pitcher stops trying to paint the corners if they have a strong lead. You know as a reliever to never walk a guy when you have a 3 run lead. I am not saying a win is huge, I just think it is undervalued stat compared to the idea of worthless

For those of you who somehow may have missed it, at 1 pm local time tomorrow, the Surprise Saguaros do battle with the Mesa Solar Sox for Arizona Fall League supremacy. This may be my only chance for quite some time of having my local team win a baseball championship, so let's go Saguaros! Do the damn thing!

Sidebet?

Absolutely. What did you have in mind?

You pick. I get the Mesa team.

$20
2 drinks at a Dbacks game
Dbacks tickets (for 1 of us) to a game next season

Well duh you get the Mesa team. Ticket to a game(price point similar to my season tickets), and 2 of those wonderful $4 value beers. About a $20 value.

Deal. We aren't doing the 10 game pass next season, so I'll be more likely to say yes if/when you invite me.

Cecil to St. Louis. Enjoy him cards, he's awesome.

Just for the sake of argument, over the course of 200 innings, how often do you think this is happening?

Every pitch and location could be different depending on the score and situation. Anytime you have a 3 run lead and a guy at a 2-0 count, it is highly likely to be a fastball in zone.

Not sure here is really an argument here. I have played plenty of MLB the show to not only understand a lot of situational baseball, but I have some up with ways to increase equity that I have never seen teams do.

Wins should not determine CY young, as I think I need to make that clear again to you guys, but it does matter getting the win and people should pitch different and defenses shift differently depending on the score.

Every stat that goes into a game is to try to accomplish a win, you are not trying to accomplish the lowest exist velocity off your pitches or the highest strike out rate

I much prefer "can not play with em. can not win with em. can not coach with em can't do it."