Well, not rereading the first pages, so I don't actually know their positions, but on its face Larbon > MJ is different from "Larbon GOAT".

After the 91-92 season MJ was 29, not 28. Which is a yet another sign that Lebron is clearly on pace to be > MJ

Point is there's a whole lot of AIDS from the Jordan side.. and a whole lot of AIDS from the Labron side. Posts claiming the Labron side is super objective and cool is really annoying and stupid.

1987-88: Bulls lose to Pistons in 2nd round 4-1
1988-89: Bulls lose to Pistons in ECF 4-2

So then 1989-90 rolls around and the Bulls again meet the Pistons in the ECF. And it goes to game 7. And the Bulls lose by 19.


Now it wasn't MJ's fault at all that they lost. He had a solid game(31/9/8 on average efficiency). But his teammates were horrendous:

Pippen 1/10 shooting
Grant 3/17 shooting
Hodges 3/13 shooting
Cartwright 3/9 shooting
Armstrong 1/8 shooting

and nobody else on the team took more than 3 shots.



Of course, the same idiots who are arguing against Lebron now were the people back then who were blaming Jordan for this loss because he "couldn't make his teammates better like Magic and Bird always do. He plays selfishly and just makes sure his own stats look good."

I think there's a chance he'll end up the GOAT. There is always a chance. He might do **** we've never heard of like play and win ships til he's 50, but right now its not even close.

If he starts playing with that same mentality he did for those 8 minutes of greatness in game 6 for the entire game, he will have a great chance to change my mind.

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Actually, I think this is EXACTLY the time that people started calling him GOAT. He got over the hump of winning a championship in '91, and then established himself and his team as dynasty potential by the end of '92.

I mean, when would you say it was? By the time he retired the following year after the Three-peat, it was pretty much agreed upon.

"It's simply not possible to play at full speed while being your team's primary creator, primary wing defender, primary rebounder, and basket protector for 48 minutes. Jordan had Pippen to guard the other team's best player, Rodman/Horace took care of the rebounding, and Jordan wasn't asked to defend the post/rim protect most of the time.

You have set the standards so absurdly high that no matter what LBJ does he will fail in your eyes. Let LBJ have Pippen/Rodman to do all the dirty work and I'd bet that it would suddenly look like LBJ is trying hard for 48 minutes."

I thought the entire purpose of this Superteam was so that he didn't have to carry such a heavy load anymore, like he did in Cleveland.

it's a little bit better than what it was in Cleveland, but everything you quoted is still true. Actually Varejao was more helpful on D than anyone the Heat have

What does the "purpose" of why the Heat were formed have anything to do with what is actually happening?

Well when Wade is hurt and Bosh isn't aggressive, things change. I would say it's less of a load, but Bron's burden is still pretty high.

I call him GOAT, but that doesn't mean I wholeheartedly agree with it, yet.

Right now LBJ is Tiger and Jordan is Nicklaus. The new version is better given the level of competition these days, but is a dog to equal the accomplishments of the former when the league/tour was more watered down.

Excellent comparison. Only LeBron's still the best in the world.

who do you think is a better defender than Varejao on the heat?

Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy (it was 20 years ago). But I don't really think people were calling him the GOAT after a mere 2 championships.

LeBron gets all sorts of excuses for why he fails to maintain greatness, people who have life experience and/or common sense see through the bull**** quite easily. He also has the added benefit of comparing his game to magics so that his scared to shoot spells are him going into "facilitator" mode.

Not sure why I'm engaging you but LOL at "fails to maintain greatness". What exactly would you call Lebron's last five years? A little above average?

He's compared to Magic as a facilitator because he's the best facilitator since Magic.

I do, it was definitely by the time he retired in '93.

Is there any chance you could pull up an article or something before winning (or, more specifically, before making) his 3rd finals?

Not even close to the same as Tiger vs Jack. Maybe if Bron had 4 but 1?? Not even close lol

Considering the point in their careers I think it's very close, only Tiger is on the back end of his major winning and Lebron is just starting to get his.

Tiger attained his majors quicker than Jack, yet is still a dog to surpass him. LBJ attained his first (and likely second) ship at a younger age, and is also a dog to get 6.

At age 29 Lebron has more ships than Jordan, just as Tiger had more majors than Jack at the same age.. Neither of the neoGOATS are favorites to pass the older guys despite being better though.

It's really not the same as looking at Jordan after the '92 season, because Jordan was clearly the GOAT then, and anyone who said he wasn't was dead wrong. He was head and shoulders above Magic and Kareem then just like LeBron's head and shoulders above Magic and Kareem now (assuming a win tonight). The problem is that LeBron doesn't just have to compete with everyone that played up until 1991. He has to compete with a huge laundry list of accomplishments from MJ, and a very great career from Shaq. So for that reason, he has a little bit of work to do to become the GOAT. That doesn't mean thought that we can't acknowledge that he plays basketball better than anyone in history while he's still in his prime. Just like it would be a shame if we didn't acknowledge Tiger's the best to ever play golf until he finally passes Jack at 45 when he's not even a Top 5 player on the tour.

WAT

Gonna take a little work, but I will try in the next few days. Most of this is anecdotal to me. The talk had already started by the late 80's, and for some people, his Championship win in '91 was argument for them enough because of the whole changing of the guard significance feel to the Finals because he beat Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers.