Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
I'm not replying to the assist thing again (directly about the assists).
you can't reply because you helped me craft a rock-solid narrative with no holes:
Lebron's point-forward style turns teammates into lower-assisting play-finishers, which prevents the higher assist rankings and more effective basketball played by the top dynasties.
^^^ that's irrefutable - lebron can never play the best basketball or have the goat teamwork shown by the top dynasties, including the warriors, spurs, 90's Bulls, or 80's Celtics and Lakers.. instead, his teams are forced into a less dominant brand of basketball with inferior teamwork that can't win as much - it's a big knock on him and his game
and you helped vet this narrative, so now it's rock solid and you can't respond.. thanks bro.. i'll use it on other forums to shut-up more lebron fans.. don't worry, i'll cite you and give you credit
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
Remember when MJ was first going about winning rings? People said scoring champs couldn't win championships.
But MJ did it.
nobody knocks jordan's scoring champion style (while leading the team in assists) because it proved to be the best:
jordan's championship frequency is 6/15 - that's the best ever, since the 1960's era
otoh, lebron's frequency is only 3/14, which is less than other all-time greats, despite having equal supporting talent (or more).. therefore, his point-forward approach is subject to criticism, whereas jordan's goat championship frequency obviously isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
But I don't make a stupid argument that maybe MJ could have won more championships because he wasn't willing to cut down his scoring. If he had dropped to 28ppg in the 80s, maybe the team would have been more involved in the offense
The reason you don't make that argument is because there's no statistical evidence to support it
mj's teammates saw their stats and role increase dramatically under his watch, while lebron's teammates saw their stats and role decline alongside him
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
If he had dropped to 28ppg in the 80s, maybe the team would have been more involved in the offense and hence won more.
again, my argument is based on
statistical evidence that lebron turns teammates into lower-assisting, play-finishers.
otoh, there's no evidence that jordan's scoring hurt teammates' production or the team's because: 1) the team grew each year under jordan, along with his young teammates 2) his teammates achieved their best stats alongside him (woolridge, oakley), or very close (pippen, grant), and 3) the team never underachieved (lost when they were supposed to win)..
otoh, lebron's teams are the exact opposite because: 1) they declined on his watch (cavs peaked in 07', heat in 12'), 2) teammates achieved FAR better stats without him, and 3) his team lost several times when they were supposed to win
not surprisingly, there's evidence that lebron's style isn't optimal (teammates become lower-assisting play-finishers, which prevents the higher assist levels and teamwork used by the best dynasties).. it's intuitive
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
you should also be arguing that MJ shouldn't have shot so much so his team could fall into the "better championship team"
mj's teams are ALREADY in the top category for championship teams - what dynasty was superior to the 90's Bulls, post 1960's? (i'll wait)
So the premise of your argument is faulty - indeed, the bulls are ALREADY in the top tier of champions - which means your argument makes no sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
you should also be arguing that MJ shouldn't have shot so much
this is one of the dumbest arguments against jordan, because jordan had better EFFICIENCY than lebron:
both players have 57% true shooting in the playoffs, but shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of
per possession efficiency (ortg), where jordan's is higher.
so that's all any fan can ask of their favorite player - shoot more, with better efficiency - and that's what Jordan did.. so stop making this dumb argument that perhaps jordan could've shot less - that would be stupid considering his efficiency level, which was superior to lebron's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
Only Russel has won more than 3 chips in any 5 year span
what a joke - lebron has 3 rings thru 14 seasons, which is garbage compared to jordan's 6 rings thru 14 seasons
jordan's championship frequency is goat post 1960's - so he stands alone, whereas lebron ranks down there with other greats
.
Last edited by 609; 08-13-2017 at 03:17 PM.