You have written a lot to confirm basically what I said.

"Cavs offense wasn't the problem. It was their defense (or not having a defense that can stop the Warriors juggernaut)."

I'm quoting myself. I was confirming that you were agreeing with a statement I made, so I quoted the statement you were agreeing with.

lol fabrication.

I'm done with the assist thing fwiw. It's been proven now that you don't need to have high assists to win championships. I'm a Jordan guy and I know, while assists are great, you don't need them to win.

Actually I've changed my mind. Assists are more important than anything.

So, I've had a chat with Stern and we've agreed that we should over throw all the champions and give the chips to the best passing teams. So here are the Champions for the 90s (including their Finals partner - Winner mentioned first).

90 - Boston/Denver
91 - Portland/Cavs
92 - Indiana/Suns (pre Charles)
93 - Cleveland/LAC (lol)
94 - Suns/Charlotte
95 - Orlando/Utah
96 - Utah/Orlando
97 - Utah/Bulls
98 - Suns/Bulls (loaded West that year with the Top 6 teams playing out there. MJ 'LeBrons' his way to the Finals based on a poor East)
99 - Suns/Charlotte

Here are the new take aways from the 90s...

Unfortunately MJ retires with zero rings (2 Finals appearance - losses).
Malone/Stockton are now seen as Top 10 players with two chips.
LeBron doesn't need to bring Cleveland a chip as they won one in the 90s.
Suns are seen as the team of the 90s with 3 chips.
Barkley wins a championship

A few dozen banned accounts on here 609?

More like a few hundred.

His dedication to his troll is monumental. I'm guessing he's MJ's son or something. Guy doesn't have much to do then cling on the memory of the GOAT and he must disparage any player who is possibly even mentioned with the GOAT.

All right that's it , enough with that bs of years playing together ..
That narrrative is so out of wack...

Stockton ( one of the great pg) and Malone ( second best scorer in history of the NBA ) played all their entire career together and never won a NBA title .
Why ?

Rookie magic with Kareem first year and they won NBA title , even when Kareem went down in the final and magic took his place !
Where is the long term playing together and experience ?
How long it took for bird to win a NBA title ....

Great player is what makes them win championship and Malone/Stockton did not win because of even greater competition which was goat jordan.
Nothing to do about years of playing together and all that crap.
And lebron showed it as well when he joined the Miami heat with players he never played with and did not need years of chemistry of playing together to win.

About defensive team and all, magic and worthy were really great defensive player ?
Really ?
And they still have huge success anyway ...

Magic joins an established good team.
LeBron goes to basically a new team.

Not sure how they are the same.

I'm surprised you didn't use Durant as an example.

Teams that grow up together have a better chance of success. Because people tend to forget about those early days when they are still growing and before they start peaking (and winning championships).

At the end of the day LeBron/Wade/Bosh won a championship 50% of the time they played together. e.g. MJ and Pippen won 6 out of the 10, and they are the winningest duo of the modern era.

It matches quite well with any other star gathering.

Yup and before adding great player like magic, they could not win.
Same thing with Celtic and bird and lebron with the heat Miami.

Again long term chemistry blabla did nothing for them because as soon they add talent they won while it did not help Malone/Stockton either even tho they had great chemistry and long players year together.

It just that bs I hear about the reason Jordan/pippen success is they had the opportunity to play together for a long time is so garbage .....

The only reason pippen end up being great is because he had Jordan to practice with and play with .

Pippen could of been replace by any good new player and Jordan could of still won .
Give Jordan , instead of pippen , any good players like Barkley, ewing , and you think it will take Jordan couple of years to adapt and win ?
Comon....

Ps: just give rookie shaq instead of pippen and you think Jordan can't win ...that would be lol.
As soon you team up a rookie true HOF with Jordan, you just laugh about how even greater the bull would of been .
Instead it took of a couple years with pippen to become good enough for Jordan to win.
Add a rookie shaq and Jordan wins right away....
Again those playing years of experience blabla ...pfft

It's all that easy right?

Basically Jordan didn't win till Pippen and Grant were good enough. When he had a good enough team, they won titles. I didn't say all it takes is time for a good team to win. I said first you need talent, a lot of it. You also need luck, teamwork, chemistry, etc. So basically, I could wake up in 1987, Pippen first year and we replace Pippen with any other HOF rookie and MJ is magically a world beater in 1987--takes out Detroit/Boston/Lakers all in 1 year?

Yes if you add Shaq, arguably a top 5 player all time to team with the GOAT, they definitely could win it all. I'm sure if Lebron had Shaq early in his career, they'd pump out titles to. Do you think it would be the same let's say if you gave MJ, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love or Wade and Bosh, it would be super simple for them to be utterly dominant; Wade and MJ might get in each others way. MJ wouldn't have a super elite, dominant wing to guard the top SG/SF/PF on the other team like Pippen does.

My point with that comment is MJ/Pippen wasn't successful year 1, they won 10 more games then they'd won the previous year and lost in the 2nd round to the Pistons. Year 1 of Lebron they were pretty good but lost in the finals to a team they shouldn't have lost to and likely wouldn't have lost to if they were as good as they were the next 2 seasons.

Not many teams are really thrown together over night that were either mediocre or marginally with high team turnover. The Lakers just essentially added Magic to a 47 win team. The Warriors just added KD to a 73 win team. Duncan was added to a good team that just tried to lose the previous season by sitting DRob when he was healthy. The Lakers/Kobe took a few years to figure things out as well. Kobe wasn't good enough year 1 to be competitive.

Lebron/Love joined a 33 win team that basically kept 4 players; TT, Delladova and Kyrie (Deng, Bynum, Jarret Jack left and other than Deng, not very good anymore). Lebron basically joined Bosh with Wade on a ~47 win team but lost Jermaine, Beasley, Wright who weren't that great but again the team had a ton of turnover from year to year. Again that's a ton of Lebron's fault of joining a team that was doing this.

I mean, you're not wrong, but the fact that you and fidstar have combined for over a thousand posts in this horrible thread - mostly word word bombs at a glance and probably mostly responding to twog - doesn't leave you a lot of wiggle room for mocking others.

it's hard to say whether lebron is on kobe's level because he team-hopped - so all we have to analyze lebron is this artificial creation of a super-team that could contend right away

we don't really know if he can win a ring organically (staying with a team), which requires the development of championship teamwork over time..

the only time we saw him stay with a team for any length was his first stint in cleveland - he made the Finals in 2007, but that was the peak.. he never made it again after that, and lost as the favorite in 2009 and 2010 - so apparently, he was unable to develop championship teamwork despite having 60-win 1 seeds

and the stats tell us WHY he couldn't develop championship teamwork - every teammate saw their assists decline alongside lebron, so the team had less assists and teamwork, thus needing super-team talent to win.

ok. stay with me here. bc this is really gonna blow your mind. if you can even wrap your deficient brain around it. but...

you cant have long term success unless you play together for a long time.

So what? MJ got banned from his high school team and from the NBA.

GOATs don't let silly little things like bans stop them from GOATing.

Firstly, I'm pretty disappointed in myself and question wtf I'm doing with my life.

Having said that I've had plenty of constructive conversation in here with other posters.

lol dude you really must have lost it.

lebron is a ton better than kobe. that is blatantly obv.

lebron has won 3 titles and contributed enough to his team's teamwork to actually beat 2 teams that had more talent than his. the 2013 spurs and 2016 warriors.

teammate assists is not a proxy for teamwork. teammate assists is also not a great indicator of championships or offensive output, as capone and fidstar definitively showed earlier.

the problem is that you desperately want things to be one. but they are the other.

lebron was not gifted hall of fame teammates or great team situations. instead he dragged flawed teammates to heights that they had never even sniffed before and did so with absolutely amazing statistical output and some of the greatest pressure packed clutch performances of all time.

and that just eats away at you doesnt it.

Kobe team hopped before playing a game.

Wo usually nothing to back your faulty logic.
Shocking.
Explain to me the success of the lakers as soon magic join it and Kareem went down in the finals...

Same with bird...

Magic joined a 47 win team with a GOAT in Kareem. Lakers had the Sixers number, maybe. Kareem played 5 of the 6 finals games that year.

Bird didn't win a title year 1. It took 2 years although they improved tremendous. He definitely took them from crap to contender over night, but let's not forget Bird was a 23 year old rookie. Some reason Tiny Archibald played a lot better in 1980 than he did during the previous season without Bird.

Boston started winning titles when they fleeced GSW in which they got Parrish/McHale for the #1 pick.

So?
Time is not an issue, talent is.
That's the point !

.
For future reference, here's the Bad Boys' starting 5:

isiah thomas - perennial all-star/All-NBA
joe dumars - perennial all-star/All-NBA
dennis rodman - 1991 DPOY, 2-time all-star (91', 92')
laimbeer - 4-time all-star (83-85', 87')
aguirre - 3-time all-star (84', 87', 88')

can you say, super-team?... bosses at every position

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Pippen and grant weren't good enough year 1 for mj to win with. By year 4 the team was ready. Not every squad can win over night and most don't. Magic joined a really good team.

but what was their assist rating

But really bad at passing. The bad boys had a very good team, so did the bulls especially during their run.

wait for it..