that's great and maybe he would have caved but it definitely did happen and he got what he wanted.

Find me a post where I dished lebron for leavings cavs has a free agent .
Gl....
Ps: that goes for Rebecca as well

Every rookie that I can remember forcing a GM hand before the draft has been successful.

Just look at Jonathan Drouin last year in hockey with Tampa bay ...
He got return to the americain league...( of course of the big boss over there was Steve yzerman , you can't pass **** with this guy and Drouin loss and got to stfu and play last season )

There's lot of example rookie or draft pick got to stfu and play .

I mean like I said, it can cost them millions per years not playing while they can get injured during their strike, screwing up even more money in the long Run if they get injured.
Some GM are just ******ed .

I mean lot of peoples dishes the "regular" workers trying to have better salary with the use of union and strike while they accept that **** from rookie , being paid millions.
Go figure ....

Means very little obviously, but anyone listen to Dan Patrick today? I think he's a pretty smart respected dude in the business.

Anyway the talk was about when Jordan Spieth gets to have his name alongside some of the greats (and the conclusion was that he's got a ways to go). In that same segment he mentioned something like "we've been waiting for another Michael Jordan in basketball, and we still haven't gotten one".

You're dumb.

Bonds is at worst #3. I can see arguments for Mays>Bonds. To me Ruth is #3.

Jordan>LeBron so it's not just LeBron fans

Are greenies? Racial barriers? Smaller pool of players? Tommy John surgery? LASIK? Modern transportation? Night games? Relief pitcher specialization? Higher mound? Lower mound? Spitballs?

omg. is your whole perspective on life just an assumption of what other people think?

please quote me where i said other historical players did not do peds, steroids, or other drugs to get an edge? when did i ever say nits, anti-socials, beraters, are not bad for the game?! you are very good at making up arguments to prove a point that is not being debated. your either great at deflecting or you need to ask yourself who really has issues with reading comprehension.

i will agree with you that this will also be my last post regarding your fake argument.

1st - the picture in question may have been from a tournament, but you and i both know the discussion in that thread moved on to live games. this is obvious because even as bad as nits, antisocials, and beraters are bad for the game, they dont effect tournaments as much as cash games, because you cant just get up from your tourny table if you dont like the players. the discussion moved on to certain posters siding that outing these type of players in live games with pictures were a legitimate option, and other posters saying it was out of line. you sided with the former.

so let me ask you this. if the casinos knew you were secretly taking pics of their cash game players and posting them online unauthorized to "out" them for their behavior, would they allow it? so break the rules to fix something that is not against the rules. great logic.

2nd - your second fake argument is even more ridiculous in that, again you equate what you think most people believe is somehow what i believe.(show my quote where i say bond is bad for peds but mays/aaron is ok for taking amphetamines.) i find you disturbed because you have a tendency to assume of people when there is no proof or record that should warrant such assumption. we aint talking here. we are writing. everything is documented, so show me my quotes where i say these things!?

i put ruth over mays on my list? where is this list? oh you mean if i had a list this is what you would assume it is.

disturbed.

oh i didnt know i disputed that fact. i see a whole thread that proves bonds never took steroids. ok. thx. so is that a long way of answering you believe bonds never took steroids?

He clearly states you'd "probably" put Ruth over Mays. He also said it is "fine". The issue is with your placement of Bonds. But now you're off into arguing a strawman so either you can't read or you're being disingenuous. Either way it's clearly a waste of time to even read your posts, let alone respond to them.

says viking fan with POG location.(hopefully for your sake its the childs game and not the military term. it makes you look slightly less pathetic)

well let me make it clear enough for your milk cap poppin, nordic pea brained head to grasp.

bonds dont make my list, because to me taking peds(esp. length of use wrt to career) is a disqualifer.

and since these lists are all opinion, your opinion on who is goat is as worthless as mine. but dont let that stop you from feeling what you say is important. im sure it is to someone.

Failure to get caught does not prove compliance.

Here's the question: you get to draft a 19 year old Jordan or Lebron to start your franchise tomorrow. Who do you choose?

If you say Lebron you're younger than 35 and an idiot.

Same goes for Willie Mays then.

I've always felt fairly confident that Rickey Henderson and Nolan Ryan were 2 guys that roided way before roiding was a thing. Just look at their careers and it all makes sense.

Theres probably a lot of players who got away with it before it was on anybody's radar.

this is not the type of argument that favors Jordan. Lebron is much easier to build around. The argument for jordan is that his teams theoretically have a higher potential

lebron fans have the temerity to say he's tired, when he wastes energy grabbing his bigs' defensive rebs in the paint, instead of playing perimeter D..

the former gets him in double figures, but it's meaningless because the latter loses him the game and gets his assignment 3 fmvp's!


thru 3 games, durant scored nearly a third of his points on lebron, while shooting 62%

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/st...ts-prove-it%2F

I'm not sure getting extra boards gets Lebron gassed but keep thinking that. Do you really think if bron didn't get boards against the warriors that the cavs would have won? I'm pretty sure it's irrelevant.

So Durant scored a third of his points against bron, so it's likely Lebron defended him around a third of the time. Doesn't really help your point that much.

LeBron would have guarded Durant more if he didn't ask for a different assignment after getting lit up.

That's a shook coward for you.


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What if nearly all teams were allowed in playoffs back in 2004 and 2005?

lebron's cavs would've made the playoffs as an 8 seed, and lost to the champion pistons in 1st Round....

just like jordan's bulls lost in 1st Round early in his career, when 16 of the 22 teams were allowed into playoffs

this is THE reason why jordan has 1st round and lebron didn't - obviously, if lebron's teams were allowed in playoffs his first 2 seasons, they would be the 8 seed and lose to the champion pistons


Stats at 22-23 years old versus championship team and #1 defense:

Jordan vs. 86' Celtics:. 44 ppg on 51%
Lebron vs. 07' iSpurs:. 22 ppg on 36%

despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.


when comparing supporting casts, it doesn't matter who's better between pippen or love, etc.. what matters is how they rank relative to their respective competition - THAT'S what determines how much benefit they provide to mj/lebron

Thru 1989, Jordan had no teammates that were anywhere NEAR top 3 players at their position in the conference (all-stars), whereas Lebron entered the league with a 2-time all-star center on his team - Zydrunas averaged 17/9 and 2.1 blocks in 2005, and 16/8 and 1.7 blocks in 2006.. So Lebron's 2nd option was far better relative to his competition than Jordan's 2nd options thru 89'.

infact, lebron's 3rd and 4th options from 2005-2007 compare favorably to 2nd year pippen from 1989.. for example, larry hughes averaged 22/6/5 with 1st team all-defense in 2005 (and 15/4/4 in 2006 alongside lebron).. 2nd year pippen couldn't get anywhere NEAR that level - hughes' veteran status, accolades, and stats, made him better relative to his competition than 2nd year pippen.. drew gooden's steady 11/9 also compared to 89' pippen..


Bigger Overachievement: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007

Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)

NO COMPARISON..



it was excellent.. but by 09' and 10', lebron's casts were far better than jordan's 85-89' casts.

mo williams was an all star, so he was better than 89' pippen relative to his competition; antawn jamison had been a multiple-time all-star and averaged 16/8; and shaq still got 12/7 with 1.5 blocks - all these guys were equal or better than 89' pippen.

regarding lebron's super-team casts in later years - before bosh/love joined lebron, they were superstar #1 options and arguably the best at their position, just like pippen.. yet they were lebron's 3RD options!!!.. lebron still had wade/kyrie, smh


In 2009, the supporting cast production + Lebron's 28/8/7 = 66 wins..

Compare that to 1989, when the Bulls' supporting cast + Jordan's 33/8/8 = 47 wins..

The 19-win gap isn't only due to Lebron's weaker conference - it's due to the aforementioned gap in supporting cast as well.. the numbers don't lie

and jordan DID MORE with that 1989 team: the 47-win bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without jordan's 33/8/8.. so that was a lottery team and headed nowhere without jordan, but jordan's presence made them ECF veterans and just a season away from starting 3-peat (exact same roster).. that's the goat impact on a bad team.


indeed, here's a gross misperception regarding just how weak jordan's cast was relative to his competition, and how decent lebron's was relative to his..

here's the proper perception: rookie Jordan entered the league on a Sixers-level roster in a tough conference like the current West, so 44 ppg on 51% wasn't enough to win 1st Round.. Otoh, rookie Lebron entered the league with an all-star Center teammate in perhaps the weakest East ever, so 26 ppg on 45% won ecf and got him to 07' Finals (and 24 ppg on 43% in ecsf).


how is making the finals 7 straight seasons equal to winning the Finals 6 times in 8 years?.. how does 7 straight finals = 6/6?... its preposterous

ultimately, jordan won 6 rings in his first 13 seasons - thats the the goat championship frequency post 60's.. lebron can never match that

thru 14 seasons, jordan has 6 rings to lebron's 3, while achieving higher PER and ws/48 in rs, po, and finals.. where's the debate?


Playoffs stats needed for rings:. Lebron's 12, 13, 16 vs. MJ's 91, 92, 93


PER GAME

Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:. 33.7 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER
Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:. 27.2 ppg.. 9.2 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:. 44.5 pts.. Ii8.4 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 3.8 tov.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER
Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:. 36.1 pts.. 10.2 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 4.4 tov.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER

MJ was required to score 25% more for his rings with EQUAL assists..

for their playoff careers, jordan averaged 5 more ppg with only one less assist (offset by less turnovers), while achieving equal shooting efficiency and greater per possession efficiency.. obviously, lebron would be a far more dominant player if he averaged 5 more points on better efficiency.


sources:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_per_game
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html

what are they?

he never lost as the favorite or with homecourt, or even when it was 50/50

otoh, lebron lost as the favorite and with homecourt from 2009-2011, and lost when it was 50/50 in 2014

btw, the 2014 spurs didn't have more talent than the heat, so their record margin of victory reflects the gap in teamwork between the 2 teams.. indeed, lebron's stats were achieved while his team had the biggest teamwork deficit ever in a finals.. therefore, his stats can be criticized as "empty", and his style of play as self-serving


jordan has a lot MORE heroics, and a lot less poor performances.

you listed 5 or 6 heroic performances in the playoffs for bron - but jordan's list dwarfs lebron's.. literally - his list is way longer.. it would be a very long post

and he has far less poor playoff series than lebron... and his worst is far better than lebron's worst
.

Same copy and paste from 3 pages ago that's been ripped to shreds. Next.

lebron is the cavs' only chance to slow down durant, whereas the cavs have tons of guys that can grab a few defensive boards

tristan only averaged 5 rebs in Finals - that's far below his avg, so he had capacity to get more

ultimately, lebron wasted energy by banging inside for boards like a pf/center, while skirting his SF duty of perimeter defense.. how is that smart or excusable?


durant averaged 10 ppg higher in Finals than the RS and the first 3 rounds.... on better efficiency

he also shot 56% in first 3 games overall, but 62% on lebron..

so durant went bananas on lebron..

it's crazy to excuse his defense, and laud his redundant defensive boards

not true.. and most of it is stats, and therefore irrefutable

for example

lebron cannot stay with a team and develop great teamwork, because every teammate has lower assists alongside him..

lower assists by teammates means the TEAM ranks low in assists and teamwork, thus needing super-team talent to win..

in order to refute those stats, you have to come up with some bs

You know over a 3 game sample size where you are being defended only a third of the time, the 6% difference is the equivalent to about 1 extra shot being made.

You've come up with a ton of bs. A lot of your analysis is opinion which is entirely focused on circular arguments around if said person wins, he's a winner and if he loses, he's a loser.