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View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 138 30.73%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 231 51.45%
Therapist 7 1.56%
George Mikan 2 0.45%
Shaq Attaq 17 3.79%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.67%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 18 4.01%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.67%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 8 1.78%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 13 2.90%
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:43 PM   #7801
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Chris Bosh the best PF in the game

I can't even
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:48 PM   #7802
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post

Again I will agree that Lebron needed Wade/Bosh much like MJ needed Pippen.

except pippen is WAY less than wade/bosh..

so lebron needed more help

bosh and love were superstar #1 options with better stats than pippen ever had and arguably the best at their position.. so they nearly offset pippen all by themselves, and yet there's still wade/kyrie.. lebron's super teams are insanely stacked, hence the name "super"


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MJ is even worse without Pippen and Phil.

in 1988, jordan was league mvp, dpoy and scoring champ, while winning 50 games in a conference with the celtics and pistons, while rookie pippen averaged 7 ppg

in 1989, jordan led his 6th-seeded bulls to upset victories in every round and eventually 6 games with champs in ecf.. this occurred while his 2nd option averaged 13 ppg.. jordan was at 33/8/8

in 1990 when phil arrived, the bulls only improved 1 game by losing to pistons in 7 games
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:49 PM   #7803
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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the expectation was "not 5, not 6, not 7", so 2/4 was NOT getting the best out of the team

2/4 is a big underachievement for three guys with top 5 PER's

magic, mchale and jordan would commit suicide if they only went 2/4 together, for example..
this is so unreal stupid. just so so so dumb. I should not even need to point this out but bc its so redic obv. but those 3 were not together for their entire careers. and wade fell apart in the final year and bosh fell apart thereafter.

they had a 3 year window. they won 2 titles.

it is not lebrons fault that those guys wore down as they passed by 30 years old.

it would have been an entirely different story if they had all joined together at the beginning of their primes like those bulls and lakers dynasties did.

but lebron was too busy dragging mo williams, drew gooden and sasha pavlovic to contention.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:50 PM   #7804
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

In 2010, Duncan, Dirk, Pau, KG say HELLO. Bosh despite all his all-star games, only made 1 all-nba team (how is that possible?) in 2007.

The Warriors in 2017 definitively have a better 3rd options/4th options than any of the Heat/Cavs teams; the DPOY is the 3rd/4th options. Klay is 2 time all-nba 3rd team and Dray is a 2 time all-nba player (2nd and 3rd team).
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #7805
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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except pippen is WAY less than wade/bosh..

so lebron needed more help

bosh and love were superstar #1 options with better stats than pippen ever had.. they were arguably the best at their position, just like pippen.. so they nearly offset pippen all by themselves, and yet there's still wade/kyrie



in 1988, jordan was league mvp, dpoy and scoring champ, while winning 50 games in a conference with the celtics and pistons, while rookie pippen averaged 7 ppg

in 1989, jordan led his 6th-seeded bulls to upset victories in every round and eventually 6 games with champs in ecf.. this occurred while his 2nd option averaged 13 ppg.. jordan was at 33/8/8

in 1990 when phil arrived, the bulls only improved 1 game by losing to pistons in 7 games
Except, Pippen is not the rest of the team. Grant and others are solid options and he had teammates that matured together with. Again the good and bad of super teaming you don't get time to figure things out.

Again, your second set of stats, you could basically say the same thing about Lebron in Cleveland the first time.

So Phil like always is just lucky to catch the ride, same as Pippen, Grant, Toni, etc. JFC you're ridiculous.

As mentioned by you and your minions there is a GIANT difference between winning 6 titles in 8 years to losing in the conference semis so Phil was HUGE in the 2 3 peats.

Last edited by capone0; 07-17-2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:05 PM   #7806
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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but BIG Z SO GOOD and LARRY HUGHES was the GOAT 3rd option till Lebron ruined him.
Impossible! We all KNOW Horace Grant was the GOAT 3rd banana!
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:08 PM   #7807
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Horace Grant isn't great but still >>>>> Larry Hughes--Larry Hughes' game doesn't lead to wins. Bosh/Love are likely much better offensively but defensively I'd take Grant in a heartbeat.

Now Green on the Warriors is your ideal 3rd option in your prime when you have 2 offensive studs.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:12 PM   #7808
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Originally Posted by fidstar-poker View Post
Picking All-Star games and random regular season game to prove MJ's GOATness is amazing.


But did you see that time he dunked?


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Old 07-18-2017, 02:00 AM   #7809
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Also people thinking Bosh was just a 3 point shooter for the Heat is off; he averaged .3 and then .6 3 point attempts a game his first 2 seasons; 1.1 his 2nd and 3.3 his last. So he was hardly a 3 point specialist although he clearly had a good 3 point shot for a PF or C.
Literally nobody thinks this. It had never even ocurred to me that somebody might think this.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:03 AM   #7810
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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did you see 89' pippen play?.. he was aids
Yes, but you compared him to Larry Hughes.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:05 AM   #7811
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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MJ is even worse without Pippen and Phil.
Don't forget Steve Kerr who would be Stephen Curry in today's league.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:39 AM   #7812
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Don't forget Steve Kerr who would be Stephen Curry in today's league.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:33 AM   #7813
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Kevin Love and Bosh were legitimate superstars offensively who were reduced to Ryan Anderson and Channing Frye in order to fit with LeBron. It's a joke. And it's becauae his limitations make him incapable of playing a team oriented style that gets the best out of everyone.

Trade Durant for LeBron and Golden State gets significantly worse because Steph Klay and Dray have to just sit around waiting for "King" James to pass them the ball .
Except you guys said it here. What do you think frye and Anderson are? 3 point specialists as bigs and bosh clearly was much more than that.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:12 AM   #7814
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Yes, but you compared him to Larry Hughes.

who averaged 22/6/5 the year before joining lebron, with 1st team all-defense and nba steals leader

2nd year pippen was not capable of this.. not remotely close, obviously

so ur wrong
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:22 AM   #7815
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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Bosh/Love are likely much better offensively but defensively I'd take Grant in a heartbeat.
bosh was 10-time all-star compared to grant's 1-time all-star

and there's never been a 10-time all-star that played 3rd option like bosh did - lebron had one of the better 3rd options, ever..

btw, bosh was a 2-way player - his defense is comparable to grant's, while also having star #1 option capability.. otoh, grant wasnt capable of being a #1 option, or even a good 2nd option offensively
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:47 AM   #7816
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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So yes, Lebron would have lost in the first round. What's your point?

Lebron and Jordan have both lost in the 2nd round and CF.

except jordan never lost as the favorite, as the higher seed, or with homecourt, whereas lebron did all of that from 2009-2011

this is getting really easy


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Lebron had an all-star teammate for 1 of those years and this all-star wasn't that great.

You're acting like zydrunas was Shaq.

no i'm not

i'm specifically saying that zydrunas' 2-time all-star status made him a top 3 center in the conference..

therefore he was much better relative to his competition than any of jordan's 2nd options thru 1989, who were nowhere NEAR top 3 players at their position in the conference

^^^ it's all fact


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MJ is CLEARLY a better scorer than Jordan. Lebron is clearly a better passer than Jordan both due to his willing nature and his vision. MJ was a very good passer as well but not nearly as good as Lebron.

for lebron to achieve his 1 assist edge over jordan in the playoffs, he must incur higher turnovers and dominate the ball like a point guard

he's the only NON-pg that ranks in the top 25 for time of possession.. in the 2015 finals, his time of possession was a preposterous 12.0 minutes, or 50% higher than the RS leader john wall's 8.2 minutes.

so lebron isnt a better passer - he simply fools people by employing a point guard style.. jordan achieved nearly the same assists by playing off-ball and he was a far better passer than lebron the few times he played point guard: 1)1991 finals.. 2) 24-games starting at point guard in 1989, where he averaged 30/9/11 including 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.

the reality is that jordan had a sizable scoring edge in playoffs and finals, with only a small assist deficit, offset by less turnover..
.

Last edited by 609; 07-19-2017 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:51 AM   #7817
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Lebron "frustrated" with cavs offseason

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...son/485111001/

Lebron agent also talking to lakers gm

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Old 07-19-2017, 05:24 AM   #7818
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

lol why doesnt he get that picking an outlier year of a player doesnt mean ****?
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:37 AM   #7819
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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lol why doesnt he get that picking an outlier year of a player doesnt mean ****?
what outlier?

lebron is the only non-pg in the top 25 for time of possession, EVERY YEAR

see for yourself:

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches..._OF_POSS&dir=1


.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:38 AM   #7820
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

maybe because he is the only guy who isnt listed as a guard who is the primary ball handler for their team?
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:54 AM   #7821
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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maybe because he is the only guy who isnt listed as a guard who is the primary ball handler for their team?
so wait... you originally said i was cherry-picking.. when that proved to be wrong, you start making up false excuses

kyrie ALSO has a point guard-level time of possession (because he's a pg), and it's higher than lebron's

ultimately, lebron employs a ball-dominant, point guard style, which fools people into thinking he's a better passer than jordan and bird, who averaged nearly the same assists, with less to's.. and their passes were harder, since there was no spacing


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maybe because he is the only guy who isnt listed as a guard who is the primary ball handler for their team?
Lebron scores like a point guard: that means ON HIS OWN via live dribble, and therefore unassisted by teammates, while using a high time of possession..

This point guard style (low assisted rate, high time of possession) is inherently suboptimal when it comes from the forward position: it adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player to the floor IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession..

since his teammates have less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball, their assists are lower alongside lebron.. with teammates getting less assists, the TEAM always ranks low in assists and teamwork, thus necessitating excessive talent to win (aka team-hopping)
.

Last edited by 609; 07-19-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:44 AM   #7822
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

You point out the year there kyrie and love get hurt either during or before the finals.

Again the fact that bosh is a 10 time all star but not an all NBA player, makes it so yes bosh is a great third option but I'd argue there have been a number of better third options for teams in NBA history. Yes they might not have been a ten time all star, but the warriors for instance have a dpoy and all NBA player as their third option. Worthy for the Lakers is a similarly good third option. Likely Parrish is a similarly good third option for Boston. Parker/many are also really good third options for a team. Also doesn't really help Lebron that bosh is a ten time all star when they only played 4 years together. And a 6 of those appearances came when he was a higher option, not a third.

You for some reason prop up bosh's d but he has no all NBA d appearances, but grant had 4. So I'm pretty sure for the era, grant was a better defender.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:50 AM   #7823
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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who averaged 22/6/5 the year before joining lebron, with 1st team all-defense and nba steals leader

2nd year pippen was not capable of this.. not remotely close, obviously

so ur wrong
You can keep repeating Larry Hughes star line. We all know he sucked and we all know he was a chucked so you can stop posting this lazy horse****. You include analysis when it fits your **** narrative and don't include it when it doesn't. We also know he played for a contract and took much of the rest of his career off. One outlier year again proved little that he was good. The rest of his career is just okay.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:56 AM   #7824
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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except jordan never lost as the favorite, as the higher seed, or with homecourt, whereas lebron did all of that from 2009-2011

this is getting really easy



no i'm not

i'm specifically saying that zydrunas' 2-time all-star status made him a top 3 center in the conference..

therefore he was much better relative to his competition than any of jordan's 2nd options thru 1989, who were nowhere NEAR top 3 players at their position in the conference

^^^ it's all fact



for lebron to achieve his 1 assist edge over jordan in the playoffs, he must incur higher turnovers and dominate the ball like a point guard

he's the only NON-pg that ranks in the top 25 for time of possession.. in the 2015 finals, his time of possession was a preposterous 12.0 minutes, or 50% higher than the RS leader john wall's 8.2 minutes.

so lebron isnt a better passer - he simply fools people by employing a point guard style.. jordan achieved nearly the same assists by playing off-ball and he was a far better passer than lebron the few times he played point guard: 1)1991 finals.. 2) 24-games starting at point guard in 1989, where he averaged 30/9/11 including 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.

the reality is that jordan had a sizable scoring edge in playoffs and finals, with only a small assist deficit, offset by less turnover..
.
Yet his career assist percentage is nearly 40 percent higher than jordans in the regular season and around fifteen percent higher during the postseason. Now all of a sudden Lebron isn't an amazing passer. You again try too hard. So now Jordan is the better pg except that isn't a good thing according to you. Lebrons tov% isn't that high but 30% higher than jordans but that's expected for a pg or point forward. So you again want to take credit and it's fine when MJ is a pg but talk about how thats a loser style when Lebron does the same thing.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:12 AM   #7825
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Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

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You can keep repeating Larry Hughes star line. We all know he sucked and we all know he was a chucked so you can stop posting this lazy horse****. You include analysis when it fits your **** narrative and don't include it when it doesn't. We also know he played for a contract and took much of the rest of his career off. One outlier year again proved little that he was good. The rest of his career is just okay.

bro, pippen sucked so bad in 1989, that drew gooden's 11/9 was comparable to pippen

let alone the veteran, elite defender larry hughes, or 2-time all-star zydrunas

so you claim larry hughes was bad - except 2nd year pippen was worse!!

and again, 2nd year pippen was not capable of 22/6/5, 1st team all-defense and nba steals leader like hughes did the year b4 joining lebron - again, hughes was considered a monster pickup at the time, regardless of what you say now
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