Kyrie being exactly the same is hilarious to me. Just give him the ball and get the **** out of his way, regardless of if it's LeBron standing in the corner or someone else

just out of curiosity, how many labron fans think tiger woods is the goat in golf?

not saying it's apples to apples but i do see some similarities.

People who have sonned Jordan:
David Stern(forced him to retire for 2 years)

People who have sonned LaBron:
Curry
Durant
Draymond
Klay
Kerr
Mike Brown
Iggy
Duncan
Kwahi
Pop
Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Horry
Diaw
Nowitzki
Terry
Chandler
Cuban
Stephenson
Wade
Riley
Delonte west
Pierce
Garnett
Allen
Rondo
Perkins
Rivers
Gilbert
Hamilton
Billups
Ben Wallace
Rasheed Wallace
Prince

Your one of the guys counting 3-5 record. You expecting LeBron to be winning chips @ 22?

I, like most people, thinking winning is super important, but not the be all and end all.

You missed some...

MJ never beat these guys in a playoff series...

Pretty much every member of the 86 and 87 Celtics team
Pretty much every member of the Bucks 85 team
Probably a couple of Pistons in 88-90
Probably a couple of Magic players from 95

Never beat them EVER in a playoff series.

That list you had for LeBron...
I'm not going to be going through them individually, but I'm pretty sure he beat 90% of them at some stage in a playoff series.

Not even close. Tiger was a mental giant, he waged psychological warfare on his opponents. when tiger was in the final group on Sunday of a major, the player paired with him would rarely break par, usually shooting a 75+. Lebron is the exact opposite of tiger, he is a mental midget. If Lebron were a golfer, he would be Rory mcilroy.

FYP

Well first of all we are talking about goat, so expectation should be high.
So magic did it in his rookie year and was MVP, so it possible .
Yes he was on a good team and all but he did replace Kareem while injured ( I mean huge hit for the team right ?) and still end up being the MVP and best player anyway.

But disregarding this, if you count years of Jordan at 39-40 with Washington, he'll yes count lebron at 22.

But I agree it is not all about winning.
So takes the other stuff individually than ?

10 times scoring champion ( no one even close beside chamberlain at 7)
9 times first defensive team.
And all the other accomplishments...
What else can we use beside that ?
Tell me .

I mean seriously, is there any metrics that lebron is ahead of Jordan ?
And if you take only the presence in the finals without taking into account if he won or lost, well magic and Kareem still in front of lebron anyway ( not even counting russel..).

Magic joined a team that had won 47 games and stole the number one pick--kinda like Boston this year. Kareem, a top 5 player all time to most people was on the squad. Lebron joined a 17 win team who's best players were boozer and big z. Context matters, if your basing your analysis on what their teams did, the quality of said team matters.

I'd look at stats, advanced stats, context(teammates, opponents, injuries), awards, peak and longetivity of peak. Michael does have most things over Lebron. Lebron will likely have longetivity and has a chance for a really high peak that goes through his late 30s even though he came straight out of HS. Lebron has more all NBA first teams than Jordan and could have a few more.

This is a grate post and you should feel grate.

haha! funny.

greg norman. even funnier.

i agree in that i feel tiger was on pace to destroy all of jack's records before his life caved in. at that point there would be no debate.

and im not too sure of the argument that labron should have a longer high peak than mj. if labron fans want to raise the issue of todays players being far superior to mj era players, then they have to acknowledge progress doesn't stop with labron.

i already see the league changing and what a prototype player of the future is. i dont see the advantages of labrons physique and natural athleticism alone, being a huge factor going forward.

gs style of basketball has shown to be the most efficient. great shot making skills with very little time being eaten up by one player possessing the ball. unselfish passing, almost to a fault.

i mean cavs get there all the time on labrons sheer greatness. but its obvious they cant get over the hump with their style of ball. its the traditional way but if labron fans wanna talk about progress then they should admit his style of basketball(one main player eating up most of the shot clock) is a thing of the past.

hey but who knows, labron might just ship to the lakers next year and change up his game with bunch of new school players(+plus pg13?).

also, will labron fans still cradle his balls as a laker?(isnt everyone outside of la, a laker hater?)

Cavs just won the title with their style and have been between the best to the 4th best team the last 3 seasons. All that this finals showed is when you add a top 3 player to a great team that works. I'm not sure the Warriors system works with every team; it does work with 4 all-nba level players including 2 top 20 players all time who can shoot the 3 at an amazing rate.

lets not ignore when they won, certain non basketball factors played a role. namely the green suspension.(not arguing if he deserved it or not).

as i said. cavs have gotten there mainly on labrons greatness. not on their style of play. if you have such a 2nd goat player, you can overcome flawed systems and still succeed.

so a system of spreading the floor and passing the ball to find the open man at all cost doesnt work on other teams? yea i guess if there is ego involved and certain players need their touches.

and the 2 top 20 players of all time you speak of are the future prototype player i speak of.(curry less so because of his size) more sleak, quick off the dibble, can catch and shoot as well as create for himself, and move without the ball(very important for catch and shoot) curry does a great job of this. durant too.

I guess to an extent the Spurs have used a similar formula.

Warriors have gotten there based on the amount of talent on their team. They have 3 great offensive players and a DPOY in their starting lineup--and 2 of those guys are MVP level players. I'm not sure the Warriors system can easily be adopted by every team; or they'd be doing it. Warriors will likely be able to do it better than any other team at this point since it's tough to get that much talent on 1 squad.

Basically it's hard for 1 all time great to beat 2 all time greats; more so, it's hard for 3 great players to beat 4 great players. Warriors have a great system but they also have a talent gap on the rest of the league.

The Cavs without Kyrie for 5 games and Love for 6 took the Warriors to 6 games 3 seasons ago. 2 seasons ago, yes Curry was hurt and Green got suspended but Green could have been suspended for game 7 of the OKC series and GSW could have never made the finals.

With that being said, I think the Warriors should roll the next few years barring team moves/injuries--they have 4 really talented players in their prime. And no matter what Lebron likely does will be enough and that has nothing to do with Lebron and everything to do with the Warriors. I honestly don't think their system is that important, I think their amount of talent is.

It's not just talent. You could put Lebron, harden , westbrook and Derozan on a team, they would be more "talented" than gsw but they would still be big underdogs to gsw because of their style of play.

Spurs have been playing this style of basketball for a long while, better than GS at times (but with lesser talent). They didn't reinvent basketball, they just have really really good players for the system.
Btw, OKC pretty much destroyed that system with pure athleticism vs the Spurs and almost did the same to the '16 warriors

so your first statement validates my point and then you try to disprove it with pure athleticism almost beating it?

Fine talent that's complimentary.

I'm not trying to validate or contradict your point, I'm making factual statements. Feel free to interpret them however you want

Anyone with a moral compass hates the celtics more than the lakers.

point well taken.

your example of the spurs helps illustrate my point. that the system is highly efficient, allowing less talented teams to have a fighting chance or even defeat more talented teams(esp. ones that rely on a more hierarchical distribution of the ball).

when people talk about the amount of talent on gsw, i believe the stats are skewed a bit because gsw players see so many wide open looks. many role players come from other teams and flourish under gsw system.

they definitely didnt reinvent basketball. quite the contrary they bring real bb back. tired of the superstar isolation crap thats been going on for the past couple of decades.

thank you

oh ffs larry hughes and zydrunas ilgauskas superstars. you are legit mental.

dude if you think larry hughes was helpful towards winning nba basketball games then you know absolutely nothing about basketball.

zydrunas was top 3 center in the conference (by virtue of his stats and being voted to ASG by coaches twice)

whereas woolridge was nowhere near top 3 in the conference.. neither was pippen thru 89'


larry hughes was the nba steals leader and 1st team all-defense the year before joining lebron..

in 2007, he averaged 15/4/4 with elite, veteran defense, which was greater than 2nd year pippen's 14/6/4 in 1989.

and yet hughes was 3rd or 4th option behind 2-time all-star zydrunas, whose impact also exceeded young pippen's.


we've already shown itt how lebron's early casts were better relative to their competition:

1) lebron's 2nd option was a 2-time all-star, and therefore a top 3 player at his position in the conference... therefore, he's better than woolridge or 89' pippen relative to his competition, since they were nowhere near top 3 at their position in the conference.

2) in 2007, lebron's 3rd option larry hughes averaged 15/4/4 with elite, veteran defense (1st team all-d in 06'), which is better than 2nd year pippen in 89'.


i think there's a gross misperception regarding just how weak jordan's cast was relative to his competition, and how decent lebron's was relative to his..

however, previous posts itt give proper perspective: rookie Jordan entered the league on a Sixers-level roster in a tough conference like the current West, so 44 ppg on 51% wasn't enough to win 1st Round.. otoh, rookie Lebron entered the league with an all-star Center teammate in perhaps the weakest East ever, so 26 ppg on 45% won ecf and got him to 07' Finals (and 24 ppg on 43% in ecsf).


before they joined lebron, bosh and love were superstar #1 options with better stats than pippen ever had.

furthermore, they were arguably the best pf's in the game - that's a fact - so they were equal relative to their comp as pippen, who was also arguably the best at his position.

so yes - love/bosh compare to pippen - yet they were lebron's 3RD options!!!.. lebron still had wade/kyrie, smh.. and remember - zydrunas was better than any 2nd option jordan had thru 89'

so jordan definately had less help, which is why he scored 7 more ppg in the playoffs thru each players first 3 rings (31 yrs old), with equal assists.. see the linked stats here


how can jordan help rodman get more boards??...

you know that rodman has never been a scorer, so bad logic


im not sure what ur argument is - pippen's "dropoff" is nowhere near love, bosh or wade's