Probably cause Jordan was missing so many shots

So mj was in the backcourt and not even involed in the play. That sounds like deferring to me!

MJ stripped Karl Malone at the other end to get the last shot down by 1.

Good to see LeBron is as delusional as his supporters itt

Good to see you're a sheep that blindly follows what bleacher report (LOL) claims when Lebron was clearly joking.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...draymond-green

The Draymond speech is a laugh!

http://nypost.com/2017/06/15/lebron-...-are-parading/

FYI

I was thinking about what some of the other great players could have done to be considered the GOAT. Bird needed more longevity, about 4 more of his typical years and at least 1 more title. Magic needed to be more of a scorer.Duncan needed more personality and flash. But I honestly can't think of anything more Kareem could have done. 3x NCAA champ, 6x NBA champ, 6x MVP, 19x all star and all sorts of NBA records. Seriously what else could Kareem have done in his career to be considered the GOAT?

Magic needed better D and longevity as well.

Kareem--not really that much more; maybe won all the titles with his first team (Milwaukee)? or more titles (6 is a ton though).

Kareem's main issue is that he was most dominate in the 70s (as a player). And people still question how good it was back then. He was obviously still great in the 80s, just not as dominate.

Fans and media never truly embraced Kareem. His personality was very quiet and he was pretty anti establishment. And then their in the Muslim thing and it's not surprising he's rarely talked about in these discussions.

how should people be talking about him in these discussions that they're not? the biggest mainstream sports network in the world ranked him #2 on their list of top 100 players and basically everyone considers him at worst a top 5 all-time player.

maybe when he was playing his personality hurt him but i think in retrospect today he's ranked more or less appropriately by most people.

Only reason why leBron is discussed is because he is drawing live and Kareem isn't.

why cherry-pick the years?

Career Playoffs (Per Game):

JORDAN:. 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg.. 28.6 PER
LEBRON:. 28.3 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.8 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 57.3 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 27.8 PER


Career Playoffs (Per 100 Possessions):

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg.. 28.6 PER
LEBRON:. 36.6 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.4 dreb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 57.3 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 27.8 PER


Career Finals (Per Game):

JORDAN:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 reb.. 7.2 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.1 fg

The stats show that Jordan averaged 5.1 more points with greater efficiency per possession and esssentially equal shooting efficiency.. Obviously, Lebron would be a far more dominant player if he averaged 5 more points with greater efficiency...#1 option scoring and clutch scoring is irreplaceable, whereas lebron's defensive rebounds and dribble-fest is

Keep in mind that Jordan scored 15 ppg more than his 2nd option, whereas lebron only scored 1 ppg more than kyrie.. So Jordan carried bigger burden and faced greater defensive attention, yet still made all the game-winning plays for Pippen, whereas Kyrie made several for Lebron.

It should be noted that jordan is the only all-time great to lead his team in scoring for every playoff series of his career, and he did so by an average margin of 15.4 ppg.

In addition to his ridiculous goat scoring load, jordan led the bulls in assists for most playoff runs, and assisted on the highest proportion of bulls field goals during both 3-peats (jordan's assist percentage in 91-93' playoffs was 31.1% versus pippen's 22.3%, and it was 22.3% to pippen's 22.0% in 96-98' playoffs)..

Ultimately jordan's ridiculous goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best defense ever at his position is the goat performance and biggest load ever carried.

So yeah LeBron shoots better and does other things better. Thanks for confirming.

Yeah ahah. Was going to say Jordan scores more on a lower % and on more attempts. Please tel us more ball busting facts that we don't know.

Yes, i remember the 2015 Finals, when Lebron shot 39% against the most secluded isolations and single coverage that any #1 option has ever experienced

otoh, jordan was often doubled-teamed 10 times in a single quarter, like against the bad boys.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting at the 9 minute mark - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams shown in gifs..

Here's a video of MJ against Atlanta - he's double-teamed 12 of 13 possessions from the 6:40 mark to the 8:40 mark - the consecutive double-teams are shown in rapid succession:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDGm8pV6uU&t=6m40s

The youtube channel "Nobody Touches Jordan" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 of 1996 Finals (link here) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown if gifs here.


Here's the New York Times on Jordan, 1987:

"Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harrassment of zone traps and double-triple teaming to average 37.1 points a game."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s9_GKFNL9E&t=0m49s

By comparison, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire 2015 Finals... So in comparison to MJ getting double-teamed 12 times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled 3 times per game:

"Curry’s ability to guard one-on-one allowed the Warriors’ wing defenders to double-team LeBron James effectively. When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting (11 percent)".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...defensive-team

Jordan's career true shooting in playoffs is essentially the same as Lebron's, even though Jordan scored 5 ppg more than Lebron, and 15 ppg more than his 2nd option (so he faced max defensive attention and double-teams).

btw, Jordan's shooting percentage is higher in Finals despite scoring 6 ppg more.

and regardless, their equal shooting percentage falls under the umbrella of per possession efficiency, where jordan's is higher (118 ortg to 116).. so again - lebron would be a more dominant player if he scored 5 ppg more, with better efficiency like jordan did

Maybe the Warriors are one of the few teams in the league that doesn't have to always double Lebron; they have 4 guys who can guard him now and 3 guys at the time in Green, Iggy, Durant and I think Thompson guards him a little bit. Seems like a double team strategy against a primary makes more sense when your #2 option isn't an incredible scorer; I guess that's your point though.

Stats imform Jordan'sFi1-9:.35.5 ppg.. 6.3 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 27.4 PER.. 0.178 ws/48.. 9.4 BPM
Lebron's first 13 PO games:.30.8 ppg.. 8.1 rpg.. 5.8 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 23.2 PER.. 0.135 ws/48.. 7.3 BPM


Jordan's superior stats came against FAR better competition:

1st Round Opponents:

Jordan 85-88': MILW (59-23, #2 def), BOS (69-23, #1 def), BOS (57-25, #9 d), CLE (42-40, #5 d)
Lebron 07-10': WAS (41-41, #28 def), WAS (43-29, #24 d), DET (39-43, #16 d), CHI (41-41, #11 d)

Supporting cast: Young Jordan had no teammates that were anywhere NEAR top 3 players at their position in the conference, whereas Lebron entered the league with a 2-time all-star center on his team - Zydrunas averaged 17/9 and 2.1 blocks in 2005, and 16/8 and 1.7 blocks in 2006.. So Lebron's 2nd option was far better relative to his competition than Jordan's 2nd option.

Lebron also had Anderson Varejao, Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Drew Gooden, who were a decent cast relative to the weak competition in the conference, and far superior to the no-names that Jordan had through 1989.

Lebron's superior cast is supported by the numbers.. In 2009, the Cavs' supporting cast added enough production on top of Lebron's 28/8/7 to win 66 games.. Compare that to 1989, when the Bulls' supporting cast only added enough on top of Jordan's 33/8/8 to win 47 games.. The 19-win gap isn't only due to Lebron's weaker conference - it's due to the aforementioned gap in supporting cast as well.

And Jordan did more with his weaker casts - those 47-win bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without jordan's 33/8/8.. so that would've been a lottery team without jordan heading into 1990 season, but instead jordan's presence made them ECF veterans and just a season away from starting 3-peat (exact same roster).. that's the goat impact on a bad team.

Jordan also had more attempts but yeah.

Also zone defence means you can double less. But yeah let's use it to make a ****ty narrative only Gerb, LFC and mont will take seriously.

Lol Jordan had a guy scoring 23 and 19 night next to him every night. Nice narrative.

Seems like the cavs played weaker first round opponents because they were much higher seeds than the bulls were in jordans early years, i.e. Better teams than the respective conference teams at the time. Pretty sure if you subtract Jordan or Lebron from most of their lesser squads they go from playoffs or title contenders to lottery; but, people tend to bring up the bulls winning 55 games without Jordan in year 1 of retirement 1.

TWOG has gone away during the offseason and worked on his game I see...

If you mean copy and pasting from other forums, than yes.