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View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 139 30.89%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 231 51.33%
Therapist 7 1.56%
George Mikan 2 0.44%
Shaq Attaq 17 3.78%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.67%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 18 4.00%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.67%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 8 1.78%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 13 2.89%
Voters: 450. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-31-2013, 08:55 PM   #26
poisoneye1986
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Jordan has the best selling shoe in sports history.

In the 70's TV didn't want to show the NBA playoffs. Bird, Magic, and MJ saved basketball. Ruth saved baseball. That was almost 100 years ago. No one remembers seeing Ruth play.
You could say Sosa and McGwire saved baseball but we let them go after they are finished.

We all saw Wayne Gretzky and what he was for hockey jordan was for basketball but hes gone and we accept that.

There was a point in time baseball was more popular than football and those players that were part of the era to help the NFL surpass MLB are no longer needed to be talked about every day.

Jordans hes done. Its not so much him being brought up in player comparisons. Its just any minute thing that is done has to be compared to Jordan

Lebron practiced with durant: "Jordan would never practice with Bird"

Lebron gave paul george a high five after each made great plays against eachother: "OH you dont see Jordan doing that"

Juwan Howard has a halftime rant: "Jordan would of made that rant before he let, Bill Wenington do it"

Lebron did his post game interview along side Wade: "well you dont see MJ doing that"

Lebrons smiling during the game: "jordan isnt out there smiling hes a killer"

Its all the stupid little minute stuff that have nothing to do on a players greatness that just always get brought up. Its crazy.

If Lebron ate his pregame meal at 5:00 pm there is just someone thats gonna say well thats not how MJ did it, he ate his meal at 4:30pm.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:13 PM   #27
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Michael Jordan never faced a team as good as the 2012/2013 Spurs his whole career. It really is the ultimate test for LeBron. If he can lead this gimpy roster past San Antonio, he's pretty much the GOAT.
Shaq though.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:42 PM   #28
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Yeah if LeBron can overcome his past.choke jobs in the finals to bring this one home to lift his finals winning percentage to 50% he would be better than Jordan's 6/6 career and take over the role of GOAT.

I'm honestly embarrassed for most of you bron slurpers.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:48 PM   #29
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Yeah if LeBron can overcome his past.choke jobs in the finals to bring this one home to lift his finals winning percentage to 50% he would be better than Jordan's 6/6 career and take over the role of GOAT.

I'm honestly embarrassed for most of you bron slurpers.
Brons in his 10th season and is about to get to his 4th finals. Jordan after 10 would have been to 3 and Kudos he won them all. Lebron is also 28 and could get his 2nd title. Jordan got his 2nd title at 30.

But none of that matters if lebron goes 6/8 in finals thats less than 6/6 so obv jordan wins.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:54 PM   #30
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Idk why I'm getting sucked in by the Trollstoy, but LeBron really didn't choke in his 1st Finals appearance.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:10 PM   #31
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

OH MJ avg 37.1ppg in a season. Oh it only took 27.8 shots per game.

Lebron took exactly 10 fewer shots per game this year. If he takes 27.8/g with his 3 point efficiency.

27.8 (.565)*2=31.41

18.5% of lebrons shots are 3s. He shot (.406)
18.5% * 27.8 = 5.143 * (.406) = 2.08 extra ppg from 3s

Lebron avg 5.3 ppg from the foul line at %75.3. For every shot he attempted he took .39 foul shots. 27.8 shots * .39 * (.753)=8.16

31.41+ 2.08 + 8.16 = 41.65 ppg.

But lebron probably has just the same impact on the game by making sure the ball is distributed properly and breeding that philosophy on the rest of his teammates, resulting in more wins.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:14 PM   #32
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

god. don't feed him.

he has literally said the same thing for two weeks. in a slightly different variations.

he has troll in his name.

yeah keep this guy around
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:52 PM   #33
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You know what, you guys have made me see the error of my ways. Getting swept in your first finals and blowing a 2-1 series lead in your next while averaging 3 points in the 4th quarter during these games is greatness personified. Being viewed by fans media and the league as the best player in the league and accomplishing these feats is mind boggling.

Forget the fact that it's been well established throughout league history that great players can single handedly take over games and impose their will on the other team, being unable to do this in the championship games is simply a sign of greatness. I believe.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:57 PM   #34
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Leo,

Your the best. Now go into your troll hole.

It's almost if Jordan never played poorly.

After the 63 point game, Jordan had a 19 point, 18 shot game against the Celtics, but 5 TOV, and almost had a triple double but his team lost by 18. Obviously, he slanked just like LBJ vs Boston. Same thing happened the next year in the closeout game vs Boston, 30 points on 30 shots in game 3.

Then the Bulls lost 4-1 to Detroit, in game 5 the closeout game, 25 points on 22 shots.

Played pretty badly in his first year back against Orlando in the closeout game.

He played like absolute crap against the Sonics in game 6 of the 1996 playoffs, 22 on 19 shots (5-19, 5 TOV).

Game 4 vs Utah in the 1997 playoffs, 27 shots, 22 points.

Game 5 vs utah in the 1998 playoffs, 28 points on 26 shots in a loss.

Big difference from Brons teams and the Bulls is, Jordan could afford a few games of really bad play.

Last edited by capone0; 05-31-2013 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:01 PM   #35
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

it took MJ 7 seasons and the age of 28 to even get to a finals. Lebron just 4 years and the age of 22 to make it. Year 9 age 27 to win it. His 1st 10 years are better than anyones. Hes still going and probably can take it to a greater level.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:06 PM   #36
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

To be fair, Jordan had to go against the Pistons, Celtics. LeBron's Eastern conference competition? 2008-2010 there was some. But 2007? 2011-now?
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:13 PM   #37
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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He's camping around the 3 point line bc that's where he's most effective. He's too soft to get down in the boom boom room.

Bosh is a little boy compared to the pacers frontcourt. He can shoot well and passes the ball decent, but he'll get hurt if he tries to bang down there this series.
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Jordan's career low turnover rate is pretty impressive given how much he dominated the ball if you're looking for a tiebreaker
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Originally Posted by Dyenimator View Post
To be fair, Jordan had to go against the Pistons, Celtics. LeBron's Eastern conference competition? 2008-2010 there was some. But 2007? 2011-now?
You're not factoring in that gang defense didn't exist in Jordan's day. The greatness of Rodman is that this was the beginning of gang rebounding, but MJeff didn't have to go 1-on-2 with elite rotations cutting off passing lanes, let alone the 1-on-3s with those rotations that LeBron faces.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:14 PM   #38
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Yeah, Jordan's first 10 seasons is phenomenal, 3 straight championships after missing more or less an entire season early in his career and missing all but 17 regular season games and playoffs in his 10th season ( retirement). So just about 8 full seasons and change in 10 years, dismantling the careers of hall of famers Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson along the way.

Oh wait, you were talking about LeBron? LOL
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:28 PM   #39
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Jordan's teammates >>> Bron's

Against the Lakers in the finals Pippen put up 20.8/9.4/6.6. Grant 14.8/7.8 on 63%. Paxson 13.4 on 66%. Also note that Magic got MJ into foul trouble in game 1 because MJ couldn't guard size and the Bulls lost. The adjustment was made in game 2 and Pippen (most versatile defender ever?) spent more time on Magic and they won 4 straight.

If Jordan's teams weren't so stacked he might have lost in the Finals too. History dictates without those stacked teams he would have failed to even make the Finals tho.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:33 PM   #40
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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You're not factoring in that gang defense didn't exist in Jordan's day. The greatness of Rodman is that this was the beginning of gang rebounding, but MJeff didn't have to go 1-on-2 with elite rotations cutting off passing lanes, let alone the 1-on-3s with those rotations that LeBron faces.



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Old 05-31-2013, 11:42 PM   #41
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

lol you all are dumb...and this is exactly the **** i was talking about. I guess its fun for you all?
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:43 PM   #42
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

holy **** this jordan/bron cancer is spreading across the entire forum.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:48 PM   #43
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Jordan was great against help and could kill anyone in that day, but the on- and off-ball rotations weren't what they are today.

The strong-weak side weightedness and recovery is much quicker and more precise.

I'm not gonna turn this into a bash Jordan thing, so if you're baiting me to do that, wrong guy, dude. I've said on these boards that I struggle to call LeBron better than MJ, but I admit that it's nostalgia from my childhood and being a lifelong Chicagoan that inhibits my reasoning.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:07 AM   #44
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Kobe > MJ = Labron

there, it's settled. can we move on now?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:16 AM   #45
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Kobe > MJ = Labron

there, it's settled. can we move on now?
ooooooooohhhhhhhhh uuuuuuuuuuuuu
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:45 AM   #46
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i take back what i said earlier about lebron's peak = mj's... why do i take it back now?

so many of the pro-lebron posts in the last couple pages stated things in support of lebron that were flatly inaccurate and false, it was like i would read "lebron plays better competition," and be like "wait a minute. no he doesn't. maybe mj is still better."

first lets look at the CHAMPIONSHIP-LEVEL teams both players have defeated.

lebron - the thunder (not a good team at all, but one of the more talented teams to ever make the Finals), maybe the spurs this year. the detroit team he beat had shipped out their heart, soul, and defense in ben wallace and replaced him with a decrepid webber - no wallace, no longer a championship-caliber team.

jordan - bad boys, lakers, utah jazz, that portland team that went to two Finals, a couple of those knicks teams, shaq's stacked orlando team.

so advantage jordan in championship-level teams defeated.

i urge anyone to go to bballref, open two windows - one listing the 1997-1998 players sorted by PER and position, and another window with 2013.

the 1998 season was the peak of the nba ever, and blows this season away talent-wise. and the funny thing is that there was even a deeper dearth of PG's!!!!

go see for yourself. guys like shaq, kobe, duncan, garnett, kidd - all allstars so the eras overlapped a lot that year. and still had barkley, malone.

guys like camby, illaguskas, webber, vin baker, putting in work. wings like clyde, scottie, penny, grant hill, mitch richmond, reggie miller, spree.

ridic deep year for talent. best ever. go see for yourself.

of course many of the posters probably don't know that isaac (ike) austin, was super-nice 7-foot, skilled offensive, starting center for the heat.

another bogus argument the pro-bron crowd likes to use - "his teammates suck. they are banged up and aren't as good as mj's were."

once again, i read this (or something to that effect) and was like, "wait a minute. that's not true. mj's teammates played way better with him than lebron's have ever played with lebron. steve kerr had a 9.0 ws with mj. mj is still better."

lebron dominates the frieking ball. if it's anything we've learned in this thread in the last year, its that when a guy dominates the ball, he takes performance equity away from everyone else. this has been proven time and time again.

mj used to dominate the ball under collins. then he began using the triangle with phil, and this took his knowledge of hoops to a level that lebron will never be at.

mj understood how not dominating the ball and making quick moves (not standing and waiting like lebron does) allows teammates an opportunity to still contribute in a way that the defense has to respect.

the defense doesn't have to respect bron's teammates. after all, they are just cheap tricks hoping bron drops them a dime.

unlike bron's teammates who routinely underperform, mj's teammates MAXIMIZED their performance equity.

how else can you explain kerr and kukocs having higher ows than ray allen and bosh? bron dominates the ball, mj scores optimally

.

in summary..

1) the 1997-1998 season had more talent than today's game, as it was the all-time talent peak for the nba.

2) mj has beaten more championship-level competition.

3) mj's teammates perform better alongside him, than lebron's perform with lebron.

4) mj's better than lebron
.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 06-21-2013 at 09:24 PM. Reason: 5 posts merged
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:16 AM   #47
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An idea I have kicking around and am not sure if it's valid: Jordan's teammates played better than LeBron 's because he was an *******. Pippen couldn't halfass and let MJ carry him cause he'd get laid into. Wade and Bosh can slank a little because they are still winning and LBJ is a nice likeable dude not making them hate life for not being as elite as him.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:18 AM   #48
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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An idea I have kicking around and am not sure if it's valid: Jordan's teammates played better than LeBron 's because he was an *******. Pippen couldn't halfass and let MJ carry him cause he'd get laid into. Wade and Bosh can slank a little because they are still winning and LBJ is a nice likeable dude not making them hate life for not being as elite as him.
hell yeah. i'd like to see bosh try one of his goofy faces as mj's teammate. mj would knock it clean off.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:24 AM   #49
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

triangle > heat offense >>> pg style

lebron has never had a coach like phil. if he ever does, watch out, especially late in his career. the post up talent and vision are there.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:26 AM   #50
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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i take back what i said earlier about lebron's peak = mj's... why do i take it back now?

so many of the pro-lebron posts in the last couple pages stated things in support of lebron that were flatly inaccurate and false, it was like i would read "lebron plays better competition," and be like "wait a minute. no he doesn't. maybe mj is still better."

first lets look at the CHAMPIONSHIP-LEVEL teams both players have defeated.

lebron - the thunder (not a good team at all, but one of the more talented teams to ever make the Finals), maybe the spurs this year. the detroit team he beat had shipped out their heart, soul, and defense in ben wallace and replaced him with a decrepid webber - no wallace, no longer a championship-caliber team.

jordan - bad boys, lakers, utah jazz, that portland team that went to two Finals, a couple of those knicks teams, shaq's stacked orlando team.

so advantage jordan in championship-level teams defeated.
wrong, teams didn't play D. Lebron still GOAT
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